I have exhausted all efforts still NO START... FIXED!!!
#17
Not that it matters, but are you sure your car isn't a sport model? I see the airdam (unless you added it) and rub strips on the body. Does it have bilstein shocks or an lsd? Better yet, how long is the ignition key? Perhaps you do have an alarm...
#18
Rennlist Member
I guess now, basically, with one good leg, you need to do a bunch of troubleshooting that's going to be frustrating and painful.
I'd be going a couple routes to sort it, no particular order. Don't get mad if some of this is repeat stuff. A lot of it is scattered through the WSM with specific troubleshooting instructions that could help.
Since you may have had a misfire on shutdown, not knowing your timing belt maint history, I'd first ensure that both cams are on their marks at TDC. Probably the easiest thing to check.
Checking green wire at the connectors, rotor, distrib cap, coil circuit and its two resistors.
Ensuring no wire breaks at pin solder joints on back and front panels of 14 pin.
Tracing AFM wires for continuity back to CE.
Putting a noid light on any one of the injectors and looking for strobe
Measuring for 12.6 volts or so at each hot 30 pin on each relay footprint. (if some are low and some not, can be short behind panel). If all more than a few tenths volt lower than battery, new ground cable.
Measuring volume, not pressure, at discharge from rail.
Those things might help. There is no magic formula, though Dr. Bob could probably prepare some sort of "name that tune" troubleshooting guide that would name that tune in 3 notes or less...
I'd be going a couple routes to sort it, no particular order. Don't get mad if some of this is repeat stuff. A lot of it is scattered through the WSM with specific troubleshooting instructions that could help.
Since you may have had a misfire on shutdown, not knowing your timing belt maint history, I'd first ensure that both cams are on their marks at TDC. Probably the easiest thing to check.
Checking green wire at the connectors, rotor, distrib cap, coil circuit and its two resistors.
Ensuring no wire breaks at pin solder joints on back and front panels of 14 pin.
Tracing AFM wires for continuity back to CE.
Putting a noid light on any one of the injectors and looking for strobe
Measuring for 12.6 volts or so at each hot 30 pin on each relay footprint. (if some are low and some not, can be short behind panel). If all more than a few tenths volt lower than battery, new ground cable.
Measuring volume, not pressure, at discharge from rail.
Those things might help. There is no magic formula, though Dr. Bob could probably prepare some sort of "name that tune" troubleshooting guide that would name that tune in 3 notes or less...
#19
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
There are two resistors in the ignition coil power supply. One is 0.6 ohms always in the series circuit. The other is 0.4 ohms, and supplies power when the starter is not engaged but the key is in the 'run' position. The second one may be your problem if the engine fires on crank but dies when you release the key back to the 'run' position. Simple voltmeter test will tell you if the resistor (or the circuitry to it) is open. Voltmeter on DC volts, you should see close to battery voltage (within a volt or two) from coil terminal 15 to ground with the key in the 'run' position. A test light might be a better choice of test tools here, BTW. The wire to terminal 15 on the coil is black, if that helps you identify which terminal to test to. Terminal 1 on the coil is brown with a violet stripe. Use extreme caution when testing directly on the coil. Terminal 1 has potentially lethal voltage on it while cranking if the coil has faulted or the power supply side (termminal 15) is erratic. Obviously the high-voltage spark terminal has high voltage, but folks sometimes forget that the ignition unit itself can pack a mean punch back to the coil when a circuit is interrupted.
#20
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Site Sponsor
Based upon the limited info that I have:
Engine is starting and running only on cold-start injection - injectors are not working.
To check, get a mechanic's stethoscope (cheap at Harbor Freight, reasonable at almost any parts store). One person cranks the engine, the other listens to the injectors. If there is a steady clicking while the engine is turning, I'm wrong. If there is no clicking, I'm right.
If the injectors are not working, check for power on the injectors - ignition switch on, engine not turning. If there is battery voltage on the injectors, you just eliminated the injection relay, short in the harness, etc., and the probable cause is that the injectors are not being triggered.
Engine is starting and running only on cold-start injection - injectors are not working.
To check, get a mechanic's stethoscope (cheap at Harbor Freight, reasonable at almost any parts store). One person cranks the engine, the other listens to the injectors. If there is a steady clicking while the engine is turning, I'm wrong. If there is no clicking, I'm right.
If the injectors are not working, check for power on the injectors - ignition switch on, engine not turning. If there is battery voltage on the injectors, you just eliminated the injection relay, short in the harness, etc., and the probable cause is that the injectors are not being triggered.
#21
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
In the meanwhile, I have a voltmeter so that's my tool of choice most days. I need to add a 'noid light to the collection for EFI checkout too. If the only tool you have is a hammer, then every project will look like a nail, right?
#22
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Reston VA
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The S-spoiler and wing were added to the car a few years ago. I will try and go through all the tests again, yes being on crutches is a real PITA through all of this.
Not sure I'll set off the metal detectors?
Not sure I'll set off the metal detectors?
#23
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
To check, get a mechanic's stethoscope (cheap at Harbor Freight, reasonable at almost any parts store). One person cranks the engine, the other listens to the injectors. If there is a steady clicking while the engine is turning, I'm wrong. If there is no clicking, I'm right.
The HF units come with a fiber cable with a rubber hood that goes over the light, tape the other end to your windshield you can see if the light is flashing from the cabin.
If the injectors are not working, check for power on the injectors - ignition switch on, engine not turning. If there is battery voltage on the injectors, you just eliminated the injection relay, short in the harness, etc., and the probable cause is that the injectors are not being triggered.
While it’s trying to run, does it look like the tach is operating correctly? If not, the L-Jet brain is not getting a good signal.
#24
I realize competition models don't all have alarms, but with more options it's more likely. Kindof like watching a crane during a storm in an empty field to see if lightning strikes. I personally think noid lights are over rated. I've been a tech. for years and found it just as easy to use a voltmeter or test light. Check for power with the key on. Then touch it to the positive post under the hood and the other injector terminal to see if the power fluctuates. Then again, I usually have someone to crank the engine for me or else I use a paper clip or t-pin and an alligator clip. No test light should pull enough amperage to hurt anything, even on high impedence systems.
Last edited by entropy_engineering; 03-16-2010 at 01:09 PM. Reason: typo
#25
If it has a green wire problem the tach. should die as well. That's why I wonder if it works when the engine sputters to life. If it's a dirty signal and can't read at higher rpm (once the car starts from cranking) the tach. should die out faster than it dies.
Edit: Sorry just noticed hacker posted the same thing.
Edit: Sorry just noticed hacker posted the same thing.
Last edited by entropy_engineering; 03-16-2010 at 01:12 PM. Reason: typo
#26
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
#27
Good call. I just got one of their roll around carts with 72 bins on it for $130 delivered to my house (I work out of my home shop). Freakin' rocks for organizing hardware. I digress.
#28
Rennlist Member
Have you checked to see if the fuelpump contact in the airflow meeter is working? There is a set of contacts that supplies power to the fuel pump only when the engine is running (AFM senses air flow) if this contact is not functioning properly the engine will start as in the crank position the ignition switch energizes the fuel pump but in the run position the AFM supplies the signal to keep the feul pump running. the easiest way to test would be to reach into the AFM withthe ignition in the run position and push the door open the fuel pump should start to run with door open and stop when the door is closed again.