I have exhausted all efforts still NO START... FIXED!!!
03-22-2010, 08:16 PM
#61
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Chewy
Be sure to post an update...
The "death kneel" of the lemons racer was a dead ignition switch and horribly out of time cams.....the PO (hack) cut up the pod something horrible trying to "fix" it.....we just bypassed it altogether...set timing on the cams at that engine made 194whp!!!
Be sure to post an update...
The "death kneel" of the lemons racer was a dead ignition switch and horribly out of time cams.....the PO (hack) cut up the pod something horrible trying to "fix" it.....we just bypassed it altogether...set timing on the cams at that engine made 194whp!!!
03-24-2010, 10:25 PM
#62
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Ok gang, put the new ignition switch in and nada. Nothing changed... So I ruled that out of the equation and I have a nice new switch to add to the list! I put yet ANOTHER new battery in just in case and guess what! It started but stalled a few seconds later like before. So atleast I made some headway and got it to start again. My excitement quickly went to disapointment when I got about 5 turns of the car starting up and I'm back to the single click no start.
New igntion switch
New fuel pump
New fuel filter
New ignition relay
New fuel pump relay
New temp II sensor
New thermo time switch
New cold start injector
Cleaned ground (block to frame)
Cleaned ground (battery to frame)
New starter
New battery
Cleaned AFM (springs fine working normal)
Used Auxiliary air valve
Anything I have missed to test or replace? Even if I figure out why it's not turning over at all I still have the stalling right after start to deal with. Baby steps I guess...
New igntion switch
New fuel pump
New fuel filter
New ignition relay
New fuel pump relay
New temp II sensor
New thermo time switch
New cold start injector
Cleaned ground (block to frame)
Cleaned ground (battery to frame)
New starter
New battery
Cleaned AFM (springs fine working normal)
Used Auxiliary air valve
Anything I have missed to test or replace? Even if I figure out why it's not turning over at all I still have the stalling right after start to deal with. Baby steps I guess...
03-24-2010, 10:54 PM
#63
Race Director
Damm
Now the Lemons racer died too....I hope to figure that out tomorrow..... Try following sharkskins guide step by step from the beginning......thats what I'm gonna do tomorrow even though I think the resistor is bad.... heres a link
http://members.rennlist.com/sharkski...leShooting.htm
I printed it out and will try it step by step...trusty multi meter in hand
Now the Lemons racer died too....I hope to figure that out tomorrow..... Try following sharkskins guide step by step from the beginning......thats what I'm gonna do tomorrow even though I think the resistor is bad.... heres a link
http://members.rennlist.com/sharkski...leShooting.htm
I printed it out and will try it step by step...trusty multi meter in hand
03-24-2010, 11:11 PM
#64
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Still sounds like the L-Jet brain isn't getting an ignition signal.
What's the tach doing while cranking or when it runs for a few seconds?
How about relay XVII - if I'm looking at this correctly it's the fuel injection relay.
Or XVI - injector relay?
What's the tach doing while cranking or when it runs for a few seconds?
How about relay XVII - if I'm looking at this correctly it's the fuel injection relay.
Or XVI - injector relay?
03-24-2010, 11:24 PM
#65
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Since ether doesn't make a difference, I'm in agreement with others here that this sounds like an ignition problem. I read (quickly) through the whole thread, but didn't see whether you'd checked for spark. Have you?
If you're not getting spark, check for 12V at both sides of the coil with the ignition on but not cranking.
If you're not getting spark, check for 12V at both sides of the coil with the ignition on but not cranking.
03-24-2010, 11:29 PM
#66
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Since ether doesn't make a difference, I'm in agreement with others here that this sounds like an ignition problem. I read (quickly) through the whole thread, but didn't see whether you'd checked for spark. Have you?
If you're not getting spark, check for 12V at both sides of the coil with the ignition on but not cranking.
If you're not getting spark, check for 12V at both sides of the coil with the ignition on but not cranking.
I can duplicate his issue in about 30 seconds by pulling O7 in the fuse box. In fact, I did just that last year (by accident) and had the exact same problem.
The 78-84 928's have TWO fuel injection systems. One that runs by command from the thermo time switch which tells the cold start injector to fire. This is working which is why it's running for a few seconds.
Once the car starts, the ignition brain tells the L-Jet brain to start firing the other eight injectors. Sounds like this isn't happening.
At least that's my opinion
$20 at Harborfreight buys you a spark tester and a set of noid lights. Figure out which one isn't working rather quickly and at the same time.
03-24-2010, 11:37 PM
#67
Nordschleife Master
If it is just that ONE FUSE...that will be a great fix but to damn bad it took so long to get there... If you have not physically PULLED each fuse and tested it (or replaced it altogether) then you need to do that. If that does not fix it then continuity at that fuse might be the next thing to check...don't they make some kind of test fuse with a little bulb in it so you can see if it is getting current?
Why is his battery going flat after 5 starts? Might he have a BIG battery drain or is that about all a battery can handle on a 928 when it is not getting any sort of recharge?
Why is his battery going flat after 5 starts? Might he have a BIG battery drain or is that about all a battery can handle on a 928 when it is not getting any sort of recharge?
03-24-2010, 11:43 PM
#68
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If it is just that ONE FUSE...that will be a great fix but to damn bad it took so long to get there... If you have not physically PULLED each fuse and tested it (or replaced it altogether) then you need to do that. If that does not fix it then continuity at that fuse might be the next thing to check...don't they make some kind of test fuse with a little bulb in it so you can see if it is getting current?
Why is his battery going flat after 5 starts? Might he have a BIG battery drain or is that about all a battery can handle on a 928 when it is not getting any sort of recharge?
Why is his battery going flat after 5 starts? Might he have a BIG battery drain or is that about all a battery can handle on a 928 when it is not getting any sort of recharge?
I would have the fuel pump jumpered right now if it were me.
03-25-2010, 12:39 AM
#71
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Work on the basic stuff like the no-crank. You've hit all the major stuff so far I think, but I don't see the starter relay on your list.
After that, clean the grounds above the CE panel on the firewall.
Take the jumpstart terminal stack apart and clean both surfaces of each ring connector, reassemble.
Verify that the engine block is actually grounded. You can use a test light between the block and chassis ground, or maybe an analog voltmeter. Crank the starter and see if there's potential between the block and chassis; if any, the engine ground strap needs cleaning and maybe replacement.
If that stuff doesn't at least restore cranking, go back to the starter relay socket and start some measuring and maybe jumpering there. The 85 terminal must have continuity to ground when the transmision is in neutral or park (assumes automatic car). The 86 should be hot (battery voltage) to ground when the key is in the 'start' position. 30 is unfused battery voltage at all times. 87 is the output to the starter solenoid, should have low ohms (I think less than 10 ohms but that's a guess) to ground if tested from the socket. A jumper between 30 and 87 should cause the starter to crank continuously. Remember that 30 is unfused!
After that, clean the grounds above the CE panel on the firewall.
Take the jumpstart terminal stack apart and clean both surfaces of each ring connector, reassemble.
Verify that the engine block is actually grounded. You can use a test light between the block and chassis ground, or maybe an analog voltmeter. Crank the starter and see if there's potential between the block and chassis; if any, the engine ground strap needs cleaning and maybe replacement.
If that stuff doesn't at least restore cranking, go back to the starter relay socket and start some measuring and maybe jumpering there. The 85 terminal must have continuity to ground when the transmision is in neutral or park (assumes automatic car). The 86 should be hot (battery voltage) to ground when the key is in the 'start' position. 30 is unfused battery voltage at all times. 87 is the output to the starter solenoid, should have low ohms (I think less than 10 ohms but that's a guess) to ground if tested from the socket. A jumper between 30 and 87 should cause the starter to crank continuously. Remember that 30 is unfused!
03-25-2010, 10:04 AM
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I didn't realize there was a starter relay. I only get a click when the ignition turns so I'm assuming that relay is toast wherever it is. The stalling issue I'm sure I can figure out I just need to get the damn thing to actual run so I can diagnose it. The starter was getting 12.63v on the large constant wire yesterday when I tested it.
03-25-2010, 10:19 AM
#74
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I didn't realize there was a starter relay. I only get a click when the ignition turns so I'm assuming that relay is toast wherever it is. The stalling issue I'm sure I can figure out I just need to get the damn thing to actual run so I can diagnose it. The starter was getting 12.63v on the large constant wire yesterday when I tested it.
03-25-2010, 11:07 AM
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If he wasn't getting spark it wouldn't be running at all, not even a burp.
I can duplicate his issue in about 30 seconds by pulling O7 in the fuse box. In fact, I did just that last year (by accident) and had the exact same problem.
The 78-84 928's have TWO fuel injection systems. One that runs by command from the thermo time switch which tells the cold start injector to fire. This is working which is why it's running for a few seconds.
Once the car starts, the ignition brain tells the L-Jet brain to start firing the other eight injectors. Sounds like this isn't happening.
At least that's my opinion
I can duplicate his issue in about 30 seconds by pulling O7 in the fuse box. In fact, I did just that last year (by accident) and had the exact same problem.
The 78-84 928's have TWO fuel injection systems. One that runs by command from the thermo time switch which tells the cold start injector to fire. This is working which is why it's running for a few seconds.
Once the car starts, the ignition brain tells the L-Jet brain to start firing the other eight injectors. Sounds like this isn't happening.
At least that's my opinion
I had a VW Golf that would act like this, and the problem there was a flaky Hall effect pickup in the distributor. Of course, 928's, at least the LH ones, don't use a Hall effect pickup, but I still wonder whether there's something intermittant in the CPS VR system.
This "click only" symptom sounds like something additional introduced during the troubleshooting or, more likely, during the replacement of the starter.