Radar detector issue in a 928
02-05-2010, 01:29 AM
#16
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I paid by a debit card, that is not going to be much help.
They all ready have in their possession the broken parts, they said send it back knowing I had a extended warranty.
Dumbass me did send it back in good faith.
They all ready have in their possession the broken parts, they said send it back knowing I had a extended warranty.
Dumbass me did send it back in good faith.
Ask them for ALL the money back and you'll give them the broken parts. Then YOU can decide whether you want another one from them or a different one from a competitor. Let them know that you agree that they made a mistake selling you the PACKAGE, and that you are willing to settle for your purchase price and walk away. In many contracts you don't have the option of picking and choosing the parts you like.
Your case is kind of like buying car insurance, and the underwriter decides that since you had an accident he had made a mistake selling you the insurance and doesn't really want to pay. Duhhhh, that's exactly why you purchased the insurance, and why the selller represented to you what the insurance covers using his own contract. Had you known in advance that they wouldn't honor the contract, you might have made a different decision.
What credit card did you use to buy the item? If the seller is in breach, get your money back since the seller did not deliver the goods and services represented. I get along very well with AMEX, and they are kind enough to help mediate little squabbles like this by taking the offenders' monies for me. Your business might be more important to your CC company than it is to Escort.
Your case is kind of like buying car insurance, and the underwriter decides that since you had an accident he had made a mistake selling you the insurance and doesn't really want to pay. Duhhhh, that's exactly why you purchased the insurance, and why the selller represented to you what the insurance covers using his own contract. Had you known in advance that they wouldn't honor the contract, you might have made a different decision.
What credit card did you use to buy the item? If the seller is in breach, get your money back since the seller did not deliver the goods and services represented. I get along very well with AMEX, and they are kind enough to help mediate little squabbles like this by taking the offenders' monies for me. Your business might be more important to your CC company than it is to Escort.
02-05-2010, 01:31 AM
#17
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+1 on what Hilton said, but if you know an attorney that would be willing to put on their letterhead without $$$ raping you, it will most likely stop this nonsense cold. My wife just went through a round of BS with Verizon, lots of hair-tearing on the phone and they wouldn't budge, then an attorney friend wrote them a letter and the whole picture changed.
02-05-2010, 01:42 AM
#18
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+1 on what Hilton said, but if you know an attorney that would be willing to put on their letterhead without $$$ raping you, it will most likely stop this nonsense cold. My wife just went through a round of BS with Verizon, lots of hair-tearing on the phone and they wouldn't budge, then an attorney friend wrote them a letter and the whole picture changed.
I really would like for them to just honor the warranty and not have to go through all of this.
Do any of you folks think it would do any harm to refuse any kind of reduced price offer, just buy the interface outright and then seek my money back?
Or should I just let it play out, because it will take take a lot of time if I do decide to fight it outright.
02-05-2010, 01:49 AM
#19
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You don't need to sue them.
Send them a polite letter explaining the situation clearly, and what outcome you expect that will resolve the dispute (i.e. honoring the warranty they sold you). Also be clear that should they not wish to honor the warranty, you'll have to file a Consumer Complaint with the Ohio state Attorney General's office.
Then if they still decline to honor their obligation, just fill out the form (there's also a web-based version of it off the homepage):
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/f...aint-Form.aspx
You don't need to have a lawsuit or lawyer.
In the meantime, leave the device and offers of refunds with them, and source the replacement as a separate transaction to avoid muddying the waters.
In my experience, a polite letter stating clearly what outcome I'd like that is obviously cheaper/easier for them as well than the alternative works wonders.
Send them a polite letter explaining the situation clearly, and what outcome you expect that will resolve the dispute (i.e. honoring the warranty they sold you). Also be clear that should they not wish to honor the warranty, you'll have to file a Consumer Complaint with the Ohio state Attorney General's office.
Then if they still decline to honor their obligation, just fill out the form (there's also a web-based version of it off the homepage):
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/f...aint-Form.aspx
You don't need to have a lawsuit or lawyer.
In the meantime, leave the device and offers of refunds with them, and source the replacement as a separate transaction to avoid muddying the waters.
In my experience, a polite letter stating clearly what outcome I'd like that is obviously cheaper/easier for them as well than the alternative works wonders.
But in my defense I did go to the dentist today and am more than just a bit under the influence of narcotics.
02-05-2010, 01:56 AM
#20
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I know several lawyers, two of them owe me for free car repairs.
I really would like for them to just honor the warranty and not have to go through all of this.
Do any of you folks think it would do any harm to refuse any kind of reduced price offer, just buy the interface outright and then seek my money back?
Or should I just let it play out, because it will take take a lot of time if I do decide to fight it outright.
I really would like for them to just honor the warranty and not have to go through all of this.
Do any of you folks think it would do any harm to refuse any kind of reduced price offer, just buy the interface outright and then seek my money back?
Or should I just let it play out, because it will take take a lot of time if I do decide to fight it outright.
Once you accept any sort of offer, you are done.
So I would refuse the reduced-price offer, refuse any refund of the extended warranty, and buy a new interface outright.
Then ask for a refund of the purchase price. They won't pay of course, but you will then have a working unit and a simple argument to take to the state's attorney's office.
This is really too bad, I was just about to buy a 9500ci. Seriously.
Cheers, Jim
02-05-2010, 02:04 AM
#21
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I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently
Once you accept any sort of offer, you are done.
So I would refuse the reduced-price offer, refuse any refund of the extended warranty, and buy a new interface outright.
Then ask for a refund of the purchase price. They won't pay of course, but you will then have a working unit and a simple argument to take to the state's attorney's office.
This is really too bad, I was just about to buy a 9500ci. Seriously.
Cheers, Jim
Once you accept any sort of offer, you are done.
So I would refuse the reduced-price offer, refuse any refund of the extended warranty, and buy a new interface outright.
Then ask for a refund of the purchase price. They won't pay of course, but you will then have a working unit and a simple argument to take to the state's attorney's office.
This is really too bad, I was just about to buy a 9500ci. Seriously.
Cheers, Jim
If they would have told me from the start that there was no extended warranty offered I would have still bought it and this would not be a issue right now.
I saw one on ebay for 750, that is less than half price and from what I have seen the warranty is pretty much the same.
02-05-2010, 04:59 AM
#22
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Read this review here - http://www.laserveil.com/beltronics/sti-r/
Greg - I went through something a little like this recently with Tomtom, the GPS manufacturer, over a "guaranteed latest maps" update feature which they failed to provide for a Xmas present I gave my wife. The customer support person I spoke to wasn't budging, so I explained to him politely that we weren't going to agree, and could I please have his manager's name and e-mail address. All was resolved in short order, and I made a point of writing back and thanking them for the outcome, as customer service is a thankless job, and you can't blame the front-line support person for toeing the company line.
Just write the letter with a level head and be matter-of-fact and clear on what the issue is and what resolution you'd like. Make sure you include the full name of the person you're dealing with, and a statement covering what's been discussed with them to-date, and write to the manager. The manager isn't trying to "win" the argument, and will have performance incentives for customer satisfaction and staff costs/productivity.
The letter can be valuable evidence should you need to escalate to someone like the Attorney General, so you can demonstrate that you've gone to reasonable measures to resolve the issue yourself; hopefully it won't get to that stage and Escort will realise that chewing up several more hours of staff time is a losing proposition.
02-05-2010, 07:22 AM
#23
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Greg,
In an earlier post you mentioned that Escort claimed the interface was water damaged. Did they give you any information as to how they determined this? The reason that I ask is that in the early years of the mobile phone industry, people would attempt to return their cell phones after dropping the cell phones into sinks, toilets, etc. Cell phone companies initially tried to avoid honoring their warranty in these cases, as the damage was due to owner neglect and not due to the fault of the cell phone company. Then the cell phone makers got smart and added a small white circle, typically under the cell phone battery. If this small white circle comes into contact with water, it changes color, providing clear evidence of customer neglect rather than a true reliability failure of the phone. As a result, cell phone warranty returns attributed to water damage are not honored. Maybe Escort has employed a similar approach.
In an earlier post you mentioned that Escort claimed the interface was water damaged. Did they give you any information as to how they determined this? The reason that I ask is that in the early years of the mobile phone industry, people would attempt to return their cell phones after dropping the cell phones into sinks, toilets, etc. Cell phone companies initially tried to avoid honoring their warranty in these cases, as the damage was due to owner neglect and not due to the fault of the cell phone company. Then the cell phone makers got smart and added a small white circle, typically under the cell phone battery. If this small white circle comes into contact with water, it changes color, providing clear evidence of customer neglect rather than a true reliability failure of the phone. As a result, cell phone warranty returns attributed to water damage are not honored. Maybe Escort has employed a similar approach.
02-05-2010, 08:27 AM
#24
Dang Greg, this sucks. I've got no advice what-so-ever, but wanted to boost my low post count.
02-05-2010, 09:27 AM
#25
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My $0.02 as someone who's also never had to personally sue anybody, yet has had to deal with money and lawyers at work. I am not an expert, so the $0.02 is probably wasted. Caveat emptor when buying my advice, even when it's free:
Never buy extended warranty for anything. It's always a losing proposition, even if they don't explicitly scam you. Ok, that's not helpful at this point.
If you accept any settlement or make any deal with them, the case is closed and you will not get anything more. They know that, so they want you to take back a minimal sum of money.
You suing them is financially a negative expected value project and they know it. For you to sue them with positive expected value, you would have to have evidence of some truly bad behavior or defect. However, some people irrationally sue other people even though they are expected to lose money in the process. Perhaps you can use this as an advantage, they don't know if you are one of those irrational people.
Here are the specific things that you might want to figure out first:
- In which state do you live?
- In which state did you live when you bought the detector and the warranty?
- In which state were you when you purchased the detector and the warranty?
- In which state was the salesperson when he sold you the detector and the warranty?
- Were state lines crossed at any point by mail, wire, phone, etc. in the process when the detector and the warranty was sold to you?
- Where is the company that sold you the warranty headquartered and incorporated?
- Where is the company that makes the detectors headquartered and incorporated?
- Where is the company that underwrote the warranty headquartered and incorporated?
Once you've answered those questions, I would go online and read consumer fraud laws and rules about complaint processing in each of those states.
I would then draft a nice letter to the seller, manufacturer, and underwriter explaining the situation and clearly stating your demands and telling them that you expect them to resolve the matter in 14 days. I wouldn't make threats at this point. Once you have the draft, you should impose on one of your lawyer friends and ask him to look it over and also ask him if he can be cc:d on the letter so they know it also went to a lawyer.
If they don't resolve the matter in 14 days, then I would write a letter to attorneys general of the states in which any part of the activity took place. I would cc the seller, manufacturer, the underwriter, and your lawyer friend. I would also report consumer fraud / make a complaint in all those states, following the specific rules of the state.
If they still drag their feet, I would draft a third letter. This letter draft would say, this is just the gist of it, "I've heard that you are not honoring Greg Nettles's extended warranty on your detector. I will not buy any of this manufacturer's detectors, I don't buy any products from the seller, and I don't buy any extended warranties or any other coverage from the underwriter." You can then make this letter drafts available to people who you know in the business, PCA, bunch of other clubs, RL, Reutterwerk, Pelicanparts, etc. If people are outraged, they can just copy-paste-customize and email or snailmail the letters to the manufacturer, seller, and underwriter. Porsche drivers are decent size business for them by my guess, so this might cause them to act. You should get a real lawyer to approve this letter draft, the stakes are getting a big higher with this third letter campaign.
I have no idea if the above would work or not.
Never buy extended warranty for anything. It's always a losing proposition, even if they don't explicitly scam you. Ok, that's not helpful at this point.
If you accept any settlement or make any deal with them, the case is closed and you will not get anything more. They know that, so they want you to take back a minimal sum of money.
You suing them is financially a negative expected value project and they know it. For you to sue them with positive expected value, you would have to have evidence of some truly bad behavior or defect. However, some people irrationally sue other people even though they are expected to lose money in the process. Perhaps you can use this as an advantage, they don't know if you are one of those irrational people.
Here are the specific things that you might want to figure out first:
- In which state do you live?
- In which state did you live when you bought the detector and the warranty?
- In which state were you when you purchased the detector and the warranty?
- In which state was the salesperson when he sold you the detector and the warranty?
- Were state lines crossed at any point by mail, wire, phone, etc. in the process when the detector and the warranty was sold to you?
- Where is the company that sold you the warranty headquartered and incorporated?
- Where is the company that makes the detectors headquartered and incorporated?
- Where is the company that underwrote the warranty headquartered and incorporated?
Once you've answered those questions, I would go online and read consumer fraud laws and rules about complaint processing in each of those states.
I would then draft a nice letter to the seller, manufacturer, and underwriter explaining the situation and clearly stating your demands and telling them that you expect them to resolve the matter in 14 days. I wouldn't make threats at this point. Once you have the draft, you should impose on one of your lawyer friends and ask him to look it over and also ask him if he can be cc:d on the letter so they know it also went to a lawyer.
If they don't resolve the matter in 14 days, then I would write a letter to attorneys general of the states in which any part of the activity took place. I would cc the seller, manufacturer, the underwriter, and your lawyer friend. I would also report consumer fraud / make a complaint in all those states, following the specific rules of the state.
If they still drag their feet, I would draft a third letter. This letter draft would say, this is just the gist of it, "I've heard that you are not honoring Greg Nettles's extended warranty on your detector. I will not buy any of this manufacturer's detectors, I don't buy any products from the seller, and I don't buy any extended warranties or any other coverage from the underwriter." You can then make this letter drafts available to people who you know in the business, PCA, bunch of other clubs, RL, Reutterwerk, Pelicanparts, etc. If people are outraged, they can just copy-paste-customize and email or snailmail the letters to the manufacturer, seller, and underwriter. Porsche drivers are decent size business for them by my guess, so this might cause them to act. You should get a real lawyer to approve this letter draft, the stakes are getting a big higher with this third letter campaign.
I have no idea if the above would work or not.
02-05-2010, 10:15 AM
#26
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You don't need to sue them.
Send them a polite letter explaining the situation clearly, and what outcome you expect that will resolve the dispute (i.e. honoring the warranty they sold you). Also be clear that should they not wish to honor the warranty, you'll have to file a Consumer Complaint with the Ohio state Attorney General's office.
Then if they still decline to honor their obligation, just fill out the form (there's also a web-based version of it off the homepage):
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/f...aint-Form.aspx
You don't need to have a lawsuit or lawyer.
In the meantime, leave the device and offers of refunds with them, and source the replacement as a separate transaction to avoid muddying the waters.
In my experience, a polite letter stating clearly what outcome I'd like that is obviously cheaper/easier for them as well than the alternative works wonders.
Send them a polite letter explaining the situation clearly, and what outcome you expect that will resolve the dispute (i.e. honoring the warranty they sold you). Also be clear that should they not wish to honor the warranty, you'll have to file a Consumer Complaint with the Ohio state Attorney General's office.
Then if they still decline to honor their obligation, just fill out the form (there's also a web-based version of it off the homepage):
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/f...aint-Form.aspx
You don't need to have a lawsuit or lawyer.
In the meantime, leave the device and offers of refunds with them, and source the replacement as a separate transaction to avoid muddying the waters.
In my experience, a polite letter stating clearly what outcome I'd like that is obviously cheaper/easier for them as well than the alternative works wonders.
]I used this approach here in VA when a manufacturer refused to honor a warranty on a weedeater when the engine seized a month or so after I bought it. The dealer claimed I must have used straight gasoline instead of premix. I produced my shop mix chart, plus pointed out that I had been a motorcycle dealer for a number of years, etc etc. When they still stalled I sent the mfr a letter, cc'd to the state atty general's office, and voila, new engine.Good luck with this, manufacturers should not be allowed to get away with this crap, esp US manufacturers, who should be cultivating good will and respect for their products and service. IMHO.[\
]
02-05-2010, 10:29 AM
#27
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It's also $1,600 (uninstalled) on their web site, I would hope it's better than the V1
02-05-2010, 11:04 AM
#28
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I was not in the mood yesterday for some one trying to tell me the V1 is better who does not have a clue, thanks Hacker for chiming in.
I called a lawyer about this problem this morning, gave him the short rundown and he said in amazement he could not believe that they said they should not have sold me a extended warranty.
02-05-2010, 12:16 PM
#29
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Jim, you may wish to consider the Beltronics Sti-r as an alternative - its based on the same platform as the 9500ci, and can apparently be finessed a little more for early detection. I happened to be reading up on radar detectors a few days ago after spotting a lot of cars using them in New Zealand (they're illegal in my state in Oz so I don't see many first-hand).
Read this review here - http://www.laserveil.com/beltronics/sti-r/
Greg - I went through something a little like this recently with Tomtom, the GPS manufacturer, over a "guaranteed latest maps" update feature which they failed to provide for a Xmas present I gave my wife. The customer support person I spoke to wasn't budging, so I explained to him politely that we weren't going to agree, and could I please have his manager's name and e-mail address. All was resolved in short order, and I made a point of writing back and thanking them for the outcome, as customer service is a thankless job, and you can't blame the front-line support person for toeing the company line.
Just write the letter with a level head and be matter-of-fact and clear on what the issue is and what resolution you'd like. Make sure you include the full name of the person you're dealing with, and a statement covering what's been discussed with them to-date, and write to the manager. The manager isn't trying to "win" the argument, and will have performance incentives for customer satisfaction and staff costs/productivity.
The letter can be valuable evidence should you need to escalate to someone like the Attorney General, so you can demonstrate that you've gone to reasonable measures to resolve the issue yourself; hopefully it won't get to that stage and Escort will realise that chewing up several more hours of staff time is a losing proposition.
Read this review here - http://www.laserveil.com/beltronics/sti-r/
Greg - I went through something a little like this recently with Tomtom, the GPS manufacturer, over a "guaranteed latest maps" update feature which they failed to provide for a Xmas present I gave my wife. The customer support person I spoke to wasn't budging, so I explained to him politely that we weren't going to agree, and could I please have his manager's name and e-mail address. All was resolved in short order, and I made a point of writing back and thanking them for the outcome, as customer service is a thankless job, and you can't blame the front-line support person for toeing the company line.
Just write the letter with a level head and be matter-of-fact and clear on what the issue is and what resolution you'd like. Make sure you include the full name of the person you're dealing with, and a statement covering what's been discussed with them to-date, and write to the manager. The manager isn't trying to "win" the argument, and will have performance incentives for customer satisfaction and staff costs/productivity.
The letter can be valuable evidence should you need to escalate to someone like the Attorney General, so you can demonstrate that you've gone to reasonable measures to resolve the issue yourself; hopefully it won't get to that stage and Escort will realise that chewing up several more hours of staff time is a losing proposition.
It is a damn good unit but it lacks the GPS lockout feature.
I find it hard to understand why Escort does the things they do.
Here is my reply to the Email I got yesterday, I highligted in red a part I thought was important.
I guess I have no choice but to pay what you want for a new interface.
I want to buy a new interface outright, if you are willing to sell me one for 100$ that is.
I do not want, nor will I accept a refund on the extended warranty.
Please call me at 770 502 1888.
Thank you
Greg Nettles
> [Original Message]
> From: sniehaus <sniehaus@RadarLaserExperts.com>
> To: <genettles@earthlink.net>
> Date: 2/4/2010 5:33:46 PM
> Subject: Ci repair
>
> Mr Nettles,
>
> As it turned out, the service manager had not yet left for the day, and I was able to discuss your situation with him. While we cannot offer to cover the cost of the new interface in it's entirety, due to the extenuating circumstances we have encountered here, we are offering to sell the new interface to you at half price(with no refund for the extended service plan). The cost for you would be $100. Please let me know how you would like to proceed. I hope you will find this agreeable. Let me know if you have any questions, as I am happy to assist.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Shawn
02-05-2010, 12:35 PM
#30
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Greg, thats BS... take Xlot's advice and have your attorney pal send em a letter- they really don't want to deal with a lawsuit, even a small-claims suit.
A$$hats...
A$$hats...