928 engine seized while driving
02-01-2010, 05:56 PM
#61
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Amsoil?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Re hybrid installs - how many have you seen that are actually completed? How many are completed to any degree of competance? How many are completed within the initial unrealistic budget?
Not saying they can't be well done, just saying the amount of work and $ to do one is almost always way underestimated.
And on topic, sorry to hear about the engine, I hope you can figure something out. Reaching out to this group is a great first step. -Ed
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Re hybrid installs - how many have you seen that are actually completed? How many are completed to any degree of competance? How many are completed within the initial unrealistic budget?
Not saying they can't be well done, just saying the amount of work and $ to do one is almost always way underestimated.
And on topic, sorry to hear about the engine, I hope you can figure something out. Reaching out to this group is a great first step. -Ed
02-01-2010, 11:04 PM
#62
Track Day
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How far off of 93 are you? I am north of Plymouth, I can come look at it if you want. Is the car at your mechanic's place? Has he looked at the oil yet? Cut the filter open?
I'm about 1 hour from Rumney.
The car is at my mechanics.
He has not yet looked at it.
Thanks you for the offer as soon as he looks at I'll know if this is a bad thing (TBF) or not. I'll call him in the moring and ask him to look at the oil and filter.
How many miles on the car?
I'm about 1 hour from Rumney.
The car is at my mechanics.
He has not yet looked at it.
Thanks you for the offer as soon as he looks at I'll know if this is a bad thing (TBF) or not. I'll call him in the moring and ask him to look at the oil and filter.
How many miles on the car?
Thanks, Rich
02-01-2010, 11:08 PM
#63
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Rich
02-01-2010, 11:34 PM
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hey bud i just picked up a 1985 s that was hit in the driverside quarter.. i needed the interior out of it. the car was mint before the crash. the motor has 93k and doesnt look like it was affected as a result of the crash. the motor is still in the car. i am located in central new jersey. just looking to get some money back on the car, not looking to get rich on it. let me know if your interested and if i can help.
02-01-2010, 11:41 PM
#65
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As I re-read other threads and this one on TBF’s I’m not sure if this will be the issue (maybe wishful thinking?).
1) The car never stalled.
2) If it went into limp mode it while warming up it usually was 20 seconds to 5 minutes before it would go into limp. I would restart it and it would be good unless I accelerated hard from start, and a couple of times if I revved to 5K.
3) The car made no jerking motion when it stopped.
4) No big noises.
Someone asked if I had tried to start it. Well yea, the noise is just the clunk of the starter but the starter does not turn, that is when the battery is charged, the battery seems to be crow barred.
Rich
1) The car never stalled.
2) If it went into limp mode it while warming up it usually was 20 seconds to 5 minutes before it would go into limp. I would restart it and it would be good unless I accelerated hard from start, and a couple of times if I revved to 5K.
3) The car made no jerking motion when it stopped.
4) No big noises.
Someone asked if I had tried to start it. Well yea, the noise is just the clunk of the starter but the starter does not turn, that is when the battery is charged, the battery seems to be crow barred.
Rich
02-01-2010, 11:46 PM
#66
Nordschleife Master
MG928...that would be a different way to go...but might be a wiring mess trying to go from an S4 motor to an S motor... Might not be to bad at all...I don't know enough about those types of things, but that is a direction we don't see 928's go very often I'll tell you for sure.
Rich, you will get it worked out. I hope it does not cost to much and that you are back on the road and enjoying your beautiful 928 again soon! They are AWESOME CARS! PS. I sent you an email...hope you got it.
Rich, you will get it worked out. I hope it does not cost to much and that you are back on the road and enjoying your beautiful 928 again soon! They are AWESOME CARS! PS. I sent you an email...hope you got it.
02-02-2010, 12:11 AM
#67
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Guys please READ the posts......" When I did try to start the car it while in park the starter just clunked and the current draw was a lot. " when he talkes about siezed I think he means siezed ! and Lightning when a coil fails it shut off two cylinders on each bank ! Trying to help is nice giving bad "advice" is NOT !
02-02-2010, 12:19 AM
#68
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Could the starter solenoid jammed the ring gear? I guess it is possible.
I still have the 88 70k mile motor I was going to put into the 5 speed before I sold it.
I still have the 88 70k mile motor I was going to put into the 5 speed before I sold it.
02-02-2010, 01:40 AM
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you can always put a 350v8 in http://www.renegadehybrids.com/, i recommend this instead of putting another engine in, you might end up like me if you dont
02-02-2010, 01:43 AM
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As I re-read other threads and this one on TBF’s I’m not sure if this will be the issue (maybe wishful thinking?).
1) The car never stalled.
2) If it went into limp mode it while warming up it usually was 20 seconds to 5 minutes before it would go into limp. I would restart it and it would be good unless I accelerated hard from start, and a couple of times if I revved to 5K.
3) The car made no jerking motion when it stopped.
4) No big noises.
Someone asked if I had tried to start it. Well yea, the noise is just the clunk of the starter but the starter does not turn, that is when the battery is charged, the battery seems to be crow barred.
Rich
1) The car never stalled.
2) If it went into limp mode it while warming up it usually was 20 seconds to 5 minutes before it would go into limp. I would restart it and it would be good unless I accelerated hard from start, and a couple of times if I revved to 5K.
3) The car made no jerking motion when it stopped.
4) No big noises.
Someone asked if I had tried to start it. Well yea, the noise is just the clunk of the starter but the starter does not turn, that is when the battery is charged, the battery seems to be crow barred.
Rich
02-02-2010, 02:56 AM
#71
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about $18 - 21 k for the chevy engine going 175,000 miles - done correctly.
much more money to go 175,000 miles with a Porsche V8. just sayin.
much more money to go 175,000 miles with a Porsche V8. just sayin.
02-02-2010, 08:23 AM
#72
Rennlist Member
As I re-read other threads and this one on TBF’s I’m not sure if this will be the issue (maybe wishful thinking?).
1) The car never stalled.
2) If it went into limp mode it while warming up it usually was 20 seconds to 5 minutes before it would go into limp. I would restart it and it would be good unless I accelerated hard from start, and a couple of times if I revved to 5K.
3) The car made no jerking motion when it stopped.
4) No big noises.
Someone asked if I had tried to start it. Well yea, the noise is just the clunk of the starter but the starter does not turn, that is when the battery is charged, the battery seems to be crow barred.
Rich
1) The car never stalled.
2) If it went into limp mode it while warming up it usually was 20 seconds to 5 minutes before it would go into limp. I would restart it and it would be good unless I accelerated hard from start, and a couple of times if I revved to 5K.
3) The car made no jerking motion when it stopped.
4) No big noises.
Someone asked if I had tried to start it. Well yea, the noise is just the clunk of the starter but the starter does not turn, that is when the battery is charged, the battery seems to be crow barred.
Rich
Rich,
I read your original and subsequent posts and must say it does not look good but do not give up heart. Whatever the problem it can be fixed but it is sickening to take delivery of a car like this and then something goes immediately wrong and possibly major at that. There are plenty of good folks on this list who will try to help and advise you and get you through the problem with the minimum amount of pain.
You must first of all assess whether the motor is seized- that is easy- just fit a 27mm socket on the crank bolt and try turning the engine, preferably with a breaker bar on the socket. If the engine is seized then almost certainly it is going to be TBF assuming you have oil in the sump [already eliminated].
The bad news is if it is TBF then the engine [block and crank] are probably toast. The crank might just be recoverable but invariably the crankcase is terminally damaged. However do not jump to this conclusion until all else has been eliminated. The stuck starter motor and high amps suggests a rather ominous outcome unfortunately.
In the case of TBF the engine seizes because the white metal of the thrust bearing melts and then locks the engine as it cools and effectively solders the crank to the crankcase, often spinning the bearing inside the main bearing housing just to add insult to injury. Whether this can happen whilst the motor is actually idling [as I believe you were] I do not know but would be surprised if it could. The cases of TBF I have come across invariably describe the seizure as having happened after the motor was swiched off but not whilst it was running- so perhaps a glimmer of hope there unless someone knows other wise.
The only symptom of something being wrong might be an unexplained vibration at 3050 rpm and some loss of power due to frictional resistance on the crank thrust face. As a 928 newbie you would probably not notice this, especially if you are not used to a powerful machine.
I sure hope it is not TBF and look forward to hearing some perhaps more positive news when the problem is eventually diagnosed.
I do not think the other symptoms you describe relate to your problem but...? It is no unusual for these cars to carrry more than one problem with owners who are not quite so enthusiastic. For this reason purchasing from an enthusiast is the best way into 928 ownership all things being equal but that is not what you want to hear at this moment in time.
Although Porsche dealers know about TBF they do not routinely check to see if the car is showing signs and in any event, the reality is that with the exception of truly pampered 928's owned by wealthy individuals who have probably sold them anyway for newer Porsches, main dealers do not see many 928's these days and if they did, probably do not have anyone left who knows about them.
Best wishes- "chin up" no matter what- it's only a car!
Fred R
02-02-2010, 08:41 AM
#73
Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Rennlist Member
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Nice post Fred. On many levels. For me, I understood the TBF concept but never really understood what happened exactly. The welding of the crank to crankcase description gave me chills.
Rich,
I read your original and subsequent posts and must say it does not look good but do not give up heart. Whatever the problem it can be fixed but it is sickening to take delivery of a car like this and then something goes immediately wrong and possibly major at that. There are plenty of good folks on this list who will try to help and advise you and get you through the problem with the minimum amount of pain.
You must first of all assess whether the motor is seized- that is easy- just fit a 27mm socket on the crank bolt and try turning the engine, preferably with a breaker bar on the socket. If the engine is seized then almost certainly it is going to be TBF assuming you have oil in the sump [already eliminated].
The bad news is if it is TBF then the engine [block and crank] are probably toast. The crank might just be recoverable but invariably the crankcase is terminally damaged. However do not jump to this conclusion until all else has been eliminated. The stuck starter motor and high amps suggests a rather ominous outcome unfortunately.
In the case of TBF the engine seizes because the white metal of the thrust bearing melts and then locks the engine as it cools and effectively solders the crank to the crankcase, often spinning the bearing inside the main bearing housing just to add insult to injury. Whether this can happen whilst the motor is actually idling [as I believe you were] I do not know but would be surprised if it could. The cases of TBF I have come across invariably describe the seizure as having happened after the motor was swiched off but not whilst it was running- so perhaps a glimmer of hope there unless someone knows other wise.
The only symptom of something being wrong might be an unexplained vibration at 3050 rpm and some loss of power due to frictional resistance on the crank thrust face. As a 928 newbie you would probably not notice this, especially if you are not used to a powerful machine.
I sure hope it is not TBF and look forward to hearing some perhaps more positive news when the problem is eventually diagnosed.
I do not think the other symptoms you describe relate to your problem but...? It is no unusual for these cars to carrry more than one problem with owners who are not quite so enthusiastic. For this reason purchasing from an enthusiast is the best way into 928 ownership all things being equal but that is not what you want to hear at this moment in time.
Although Porsche dealers know about TBF they do not routinely check to see if the car is showing signs and in any event, the reality is that with the exception of truly pampered 928's owned by wealthy individuals who have probably sold them anyway for newer Porsches, main dealers do not see many 928's these days and if they did, probably do not have anyone left who knows about them.
Best wishes- "chin up" no matter what- it's only a car!
Fred R
I read your original and subsequent posts and must say it does not look good but do not give up heart. Whatever the problem it can be fixed but it is sickening to take delivery of a car like this and then something goes immediately wrong and possibly major at that. There are plenty of good folks on this list who will try to help and advise you and get you through the problem with the minimum amount of pain.
You must first of all assess whether the motor is seized- that is easy- just fit a 27mm socket on the crank bolt and try turning the engine, preferably with a breaker bar on the socket. If the engine is seized then almost certainly it is going to be TBF assuming you have oil in the sump [already eliminated].
The bad news is if it is TBF then the engine [block and crank] are probably toast. The crank might just be recoverable but invariably the crankcase is terminally damaged. However do not jump to this conclusion until all else has been eliminated. The stuck starter motor and high amps suggests a rather ominous outcome unfortunately.
In the case of TBF the engine seizes because the white metal of the thrust bearing melts and then locks the engine as it cools and effectively solders the crank to the crankcase, often spinning the bearing inside the main bearing housing just to add insult to injury. Whether this can happen whilst the motor is actually idling [as I believe you were] I do not know but would be surprised if it could. The cases of TBF I have come across invariably describe the seizure as having happened after the motor was swiched off but not whilst it was running- so perhaps a glimmer of hope there unless someone knows other wise.
The only symptom of something being wrong might be an unexplained vibration at 3050 rpm and some loss of power due to frictional resistance on the crank thrust face. As a 928 newbie you would probably not notice this, especially if you are not used to a powerful machine.
I sure hope it is not TBF and look forward to hearing some perhaps more positive news when the problem is eventually diagnosed.
I do not think the other symptoms you describe relate to your problem but...? It is no unusual for these cars to carrry more than one problem with owners who are not quite so enthusiastic. For this reason purchasing from an enthusiast is the best way into 928 ownership all things being equal but that is not what you want to hear at this moment in time.
Although Porsche dealers know about TBF they do not routinely check to see if the car is showing signs and in any event, the reality is that with the exception of truly pampered 928's owned by wealthy individuals who have probably sold them anyway for newer Porsches, main dealers do not see many 928's these days and if they did, probably do not have anyone left who knows about them.
Best wishes- "chin up" no matter what- it's only a car!
Fred R
02-02-2010, 08:47 AM
#74
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Many of the 928s with 175K miles, besides the routine TB/WP changes, maybe had their head gasket changed and that's it. This doesn't cost $18K and neither does a Chevy V8 to make it that far.
02-02-2010, 08:55 AM
#75
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Rich,
I read your original and subsequent posts and must say it does not look good but do not give up heart. Whatever the problem it can be fixed but it is sickening to take delivery of a car like this and then something goes immediately wrong and possibly major at that. There are plenty of good folks on this list who will try to help and advise you and get you through the problem with the minimum amount of pain.
You must first of all assess whether the motor is seized- that is easy- just fit a 27mm socket on the crank bolt and try turning the engine, preferably with a breaker bar on the socket. If the engine is seized then almost certainly it is going to be TBF assuming you have oil in the sump [already eliminated].
The bad news is if it is TBF then the engine [block and crank] are probably toast. The crank might just be recoverable but invariably the crankcase is terminally damaged. However do not jump to this conclusion until all else has been eliminated. The stuck starter motor and high amps suggests a rather ominous outcome unfortunately.
In the case of TBF the engine seizes because the white metal of the thrust bearing melts and then locks the engine as it cools and effectively solders the crank to the crankcase, often spinning the bearing inside the main bearing housing just to add insult to injury. Whether this can happen whilst the motor is actually idling [as I believe you were] I do not know but would be surprised if it could. The cases of TBF I have come across invariably describe the seizure as having happened after the motor was swiched off but not whilst it was running- so perhaps a glimmer of hope there unless someone knows other wise.
The only symptom of something being wrong might be an unexplained vibration at 3050 rpm and some loss of power due to frictional resistance on the crank thrust face. As a 928 newbie you would probably not notice this, especially if you are not used to a powerful machine.
I sure hope it is not TBF and look forward to hearing some perhaps more positive news when the problem is eventually diagnosed.
I do not think the other symptoms you describe relate to your problem but...? It is no unusual for these cars to carrry more than one problem with owners who are not quite so enthusiastic. For this reason purchasing from an enthusiast is the best way into 928 ownership all things being equal but that is not what you want to hear at this moment in time.
Although Porsche dealers know about TBF they do not routinely check to see if the car is showing signs and in any event, the reality is that with the exception of truly pampered 928's owned by wealthy individuals who have probably sold them anyway for newer Porsches, main dealers do not see many 928's these days and if they did, probably do not have anyone left who knows about them.
Best wishes- "chin up" no matter what- it's only a car!
Fred R
I read your original and subsequent posts and must say it does not look good but do not give up heart. Whatever the problem it can be fixed but it is sickening to take delivery of a car like this and then something goes immediately wrong and possibly major at that. There are plenty of good folks on this list who will try to help and advise you and get you through the problem with the minimum amount of pain.
You must first of all assess whether the motor is seized- that is easy- just fit a 27mm socket on the crank bolt and try turning the engine, preferably with a breaker bar on the socket. If the engine is seized then almost certainly it is going to be TBF assuming you have oil in the sump [already eliminated].
The bad news is if it is TBF then the engine [block and crank] are probably toast. The crank might just be recoverable but invariably the crankcase is terminally damaged. However do not jump to this conclusion until all else has been eliminated. The stuck starter motor and high amps suggests a rather ominous outcome unfortunately.
In the case of TBF the engine seizes because the white metal of the thrust bearing melts and then locks the engine as it cools and effectively solders the crank to the crankcase, often spinning the bearing inside the main bearing housing just to add insult to injury. Whether this can happen whilst the motor is actually idling [as I believe you were] I do not know but would be surprised if it could. The cases of TBF I have come across invariably describe the seizure as having happened after the motor was swiched off but not whilst it was running- so perhaps a glimmer of hope there unless someone knows other wise.
The only symptom of something being wrong might be an unexplained vibration at 3050 rpm and some loss of power due to frictional resistance on the crank thrust face. As a 928 newbie you would probably not notice this, especially if you are not used to a powerful machine.
I sure hope it is not TBF and look forward to hearing some perhaps more positive news when the problem is eventually diagnosed.
I do not think the other symptoms you describe relate to your problem but...? It is no unusual for these cars to carrry more than one problem with owners who are not quite so enthusiastic. For this reason purchasing from an enthusiast is the best way into 928 ownership all things being equal but that is not what you want to hear at this moment in time.
Although Porsche dealers know about TBF they do not routinely check to see if the car is showing signs and in any event, the reality is that with the exception of truly pampered 928's owned by wealthy individuals who have probably sold them anyway for newer Porsches, main dealers do not see many 928's these days and if they did, probably do not have anyone left who knows about them.
Best wishes- "chin up" no matter what- it's only a car!
Fred R