Cayenne COP units for 928
01-27-2010, 03:10 PM
#16
All coils purchased after 05 or so are the newer, better units. The cracking was because of cam cover misalignment on the cayennes. Not an issue with our cars.
01-27-2010, 03:13 PM
#17
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Can you still find these things for $18 (or whatever it was) anywhere? How much are the connectors, now?
01-27-2010, 06:52 PM
#18
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Is there a difference in output votage and or spark energy or better reason to use these coils versus a Delphi/GM coil from an LS1 (truck coil) or similar application.. They are also cheap, and can be had in many wrecking yards or fleabay etc...
Just curious, as I plan on wiring up my Motec IEX with this type of coil, and not the Cayenne version..
Just curious, as I plan on wiring up my Motec IEX with this type of coil, and not the Cayenne version..
01-27-2010, 09:29 PM
#19
TECHNICALLY, except for the loom plugs (pricey) these coils are cheaper than the LS1 coils. The LS1 coils are idiot proof, however. But harder to mount.
01-28-2010, 01:11 AM
#20
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Thread Starter
Ok update on this.
Thanks you everyone for your assistance, Louis especially!
The problem was that the MS unit did not have enough milliamps in the +5V signal to fire the coils as they require a minimum of 18ma.
What we did to fix this was to take a line from the 5VRef line for the TPS and tag it over to each of the +5V logic level pins with a 100 ohm resistor in line. This supplied the needed milliamps and they are firing perfectly.
I still have a few things to take care of and then tune the car. But it is started and idling now.
These coild are yes still VERY cheap to buy. However this is going to change.
The newer versions .05 iirc have had very very few failures. However Porsche is still coming out with a new model .09 iirc. The price for the new units (once old stock is gone) will be $90 per unit.
The thing that makes them a little pricey now is the connectors. You must buy the connectors from Porsche (4 pin Kostal style) They come in pairs, and are $50 some odd for the 2 of them.
The pins you can buy with leads from porsche but they are rediculously expensive! Instead go to Bellingermotorsports.com and get kostal pins and GM delphi seal packs and you can pin them for pennies.
We can all thank Mike Simard for that last bit of precious information!
The Motec IEX will not drive these units. This is the only reason that Mike Simard doesnt run them. It is because of a hardware problem with having the dwell too high while cranking.
The beauty of these units is that they drop right in and are the perfect size/shape. Using the GM CNP units will require some custom fiddling in order to get them to fit up. I will be looking at making an easy way to adapt them in the future. Running the COP units is better than a CNP in my opinion as there is no wires to get age/fail/loose spark to.
Once you get the circuit to run these coils there is no reason to go any other way as they are a good unit.
Thanks you everyone for your assistance, Louis especially!
The problem was that the MS unit did not have enough milliamps in the +5V signal to fire the coils as they require a minimum of 18ma.
What we did to fix this was to take a line from the 5VRef line for the TPS and tag it over to each of the +5V logic level pins with a 100 ohm resistor in line. This supplied the needed milliamps and they are firing perfectly.
I still have a few things to take care of and then tune the car. But it is started and idling now.
These coild are yes still VERY cheap to buy. However this is going to change.
The newer versions .05 iirc have had very very few failures. However Porsche is still coming out with a new model .09 iirc. The price for the new units (once old stock is gone) will be $90 per unit.
The thing that makes them a little pricey now is the connectors. You must buy the connectors from Porsche (4 pin Kostal style) They come in pairs, and are $50 some odd for the 2 of them.
The pins you can buy with leads from porsche but they are rediculously expensive! Instead go to Bellingermotorsports.com and get kostal pins and GM delphi seal packs and you can pin them for pennies.
We can all thank Mike Simard for that last bit of precious information!
The Motec IEX will not drive these units. This is the only reason that Mike Simard doesnt run them. It is because of a hardware problem with having the dwell too high while cranking.
The beauty of these units is that they drop right in and are the perfect size/shape. Using the GM CNP units will require some custom fiddling in order to get them to fit up. I will be looking at making an easy way to adapt them in the future. Running the COP units is better than a CNP in my opinion as there is no wires to get age/fail/loose spark to.
Once you get the circuit to run these coils there is no reason to go any other way as they are a good unit.
01-28-2010, 01:29 AM
#21
12 dollars to 90 dollars. Thanks Porsche! (If there was a one finger salute, it would be here)
01-28-2010, 01:50 AM
#22
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01-28-2010, 03:57 AM
#24
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Sounds like you are making good progress.. However, I think the Delphi stuff is also pretty good, and can be had for cheap even if it's CNP instead of COP. A bracket should also be very easily buildable to mount the coils on or near the valvecovers like on an LS1.
I have this setup in my boat, and it works fine for several years now.. Anyway, the connectors are GM Weatherpacs, and those are also pretty cheap, and can be used to terminate any wiring harness. Wired into the Motec IEX/Ignitor circuit should also be pretty simple. Even if the setup is from a junkyard with a harness and weatherpacs already on the harness, the unterminated end would just need the appropriate weatherpac connector..
On another note, as an alternative, a GM Delphi MEFI 4b controller can run a 928 motor on MAP and also be adapted to control positive pressure. Some of my boat buddies have this ECU with blown engines running just fine, in my current installed 496CI boat motor I also have a MEFI4 ECU, and have a 588CI waiting to be finished to go in with a centrifugal or possibly twin turbos using this ECU.. The MEFI Burn software is readily availlable, and the ECU is pretty bulletproof and about the size of a pack of cigarettes. (A marine environment is much harsher than any car, even a race car, as there is no salt water in racecars. However in race boats the stuff gets all over the place, and vibration is the norm..)
OK, enough rambling.. Great to hear about the resistor solution..
PS... Wasted spark using a dual tower Delphi Coil like on the Electromotive setup is also pretty cheap... They come in Saturns I believe, but can be had all over fleabay and many junkyards for cheap..
Oh, about the cost of PCar things, at least you're not putting in a Li Ion battery.... you think a coil is expensive at $90..... hmmmm....
Cheers,
I have this setup in my boat, and it works fine for several years now.. Anyway, the connectors are GM Weatherpacs, and those are also pretty cheap, and can be used to terminate any wiring harness. Wired into the Motec IEX/Ignitor circuit should also be pretty simple. Even if the setup is from a junkyard with a harness and weatherpacs already on the harness, the unterminated end would just need the appropriate weatherpac connector..
On another note, as an alternative, a GM Delphi MEFI 4b controller can run a 928 motor on MAP and also be adapted to control positive pressure. Some of my boat buddies have this ECU with blown engines running just fine, in my current installed 496CI boat motor I also have a MEFI4 ECU, and have a 588CI waiting to be finished to go in with a centrifugal or possibly twin turbos using this ECU.. The MEFI Burn software is readily availlable, and the ECU is pretty bulletproof and about the size of a pack of cigarettes. (A marine environment is much harsher than any car, even a race car, as there is no salt water in racecars. However in race boats the stuff gets all over the place, and vibration is the norm..)
OK, enough rambling.. Great to hear about the resistor solution..
PS... Wasted spark using a dual tower Delphi Coil like on the Electromotive setup is also pretty cheap... They come in Saturns I believe, but can be had all over fleabay and many junkyards for cheap..
Oh, about the cost of PCar things, at least you're not putting in a Li Ion battery.... you think a coil is expensive at $90..... hmmmm....
Cheers,
Ok update on this.
Thanks you everyone for your assistance, Louis especially!
The problem was that the MS unit did not have enough milliamps in the +5V signal to fire the coils as they require a minimum of 18ma.
What we did to fix this was to take a line from the 5VRef line for the TPS and tag it over to each of the +5V logic level pins with a 100 ohm resistor in line. This supplied the needed milliamps and they are firing perfectly.
I still have a few things to take care of and then tune the car. But it is started and idling now.
These coild are yes still VERY cheap to buy. However this is going to change.
The newer versions .05 iirc have had very very few failures. However Porsche is still coming out with a new model .09 iirc. The price for the new units (once old stock is gone) will be $90 per unit.
The thing that makes them a little pricey now is the connectors. You must buy the connectors from Porsche (4 pin Kostal style) They come in pairs, and are $50 some odd for the 2 of them.
The pins you can buy with leads from porsche but they are rediculously expensive! Instead go to Bellingermotorsports.com and get kostal pins and GM delphi seal packs and you can pin them for pennies.
We can all thank Mike Simard for that last bit of precious information!
The Motec IEX will not drive these units. This is the only reason that Mike Simard doesnt run them. It is because of a hardware problem with having the dwell too high while cranking.
The beauty of these units is that they drop right in and are the perfect size/shape. Using the GM CNP units will require some custom fiddling in order to get them to fit up. I will be looking at making an easy way to adapt them in the future. Running the COP units is better than a CNP in my opinion as there is no wires to get age/fail/loose spark to.
Once you get the circuit to run these coils there is no reason to go any other way as they are a good unit.
Thanks you everyone for your assistance, Louis especially!
The problem was that the MS unit did not have enough milliamps in the +5V signal to fire the coils as they require a minimum of 18ma.
What we did to fix this was to take a line from the 5VRef line for the TPS and tag it over to each of the +5V logic level pins with a 100 ohm resistor in line. This supplied the needed milliamps and they are firing perfectly.
I still have a few things to take care of and then tune the car. But it is started and idling now.
These coild are yes still VERY cheap to buy. However this is going to change.
The newer versions .05 iirc have had very very few failures. However Porsche is still coming out with a new model .09 iirc. The price for the new units (once old stock is gone) will be $90 per unit.
The thing that makes them a little pricey now is the connectors. You must buy the connectors from Porsche (4 pin Kostal style) They come in pairs, and are $50 some odd for the 2 of them.
The pins you can buy with leads from porsche but they are rediculously expensive! Instead go to Bellingermotorsports.com and get kostal pins and GM delphi seal packs and you can pin them for pennies.
We can all thank Mike Simard for that last bit of precious information!
The Motec IEX will not drive these units. This is the only reason that Mike Simard doesnt run them. It is because of a hardware problem with having the dwell too high while cranking.
The beauty of these units is that they drop right in and are the perfect size/shape. Using the GM CNP units will require some custom fiddling in order to get them to fit up. I will be looking at making an easy way to adapt them in the future. Running the COP units is better than a CNP in my opinion as there is no wires to get age/fail/loose spark to.
Once you get the circuit to run these coils there is no reason to go any other way as they are a good unit.
01-28-2010, 10:36 AM
#25
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I checked and the 05 is still available for $17.86 from the wholesalers.
The 07 is $63.
HTH's
The 07 is $63.
HTH's
__________________
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission? George Layton March 2014
928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
