Notices
928 Forum 1978-1995
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: 928 Specialists

1989 porsche 928 no start

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-31-2010, 12:11 AM
  #61  
dr bob
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
dr bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 20,506
Received 546 Likes on 409 Posts
Default

That connector is used on car without catalysts to adjust fuel mixture range. The potentiomere that plugs in there replaces the function of the oxygen sensor. Oxy sensors die a quiet painfull yet quick death when leaded fuel is used.

Bottom line: Nothing plugs in there on your US car.
Old 01-31-2010, 12:14 AM
  #62  
dr bob
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
dr bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 20,506
Received 546 Likes on 409 Posts
Default

Diagnostic plug on the '89+ cars is under the cover next to the right-side seat. Round multipin connector with a thread for a retainer of some sort.


Did you do the ohm meter tests yet? POST YOUR RESULTS PLEASE.
Old 01-31-2010, 01:24 AM
  #63  
Lizard928
Nordschleife Master
 
Lizard928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Abbotsford B.C.
Posts: 9,600
Received 34 Likes on 25 Posts
Default

Bob is correct,
That 3 pin black plug is for a potentiometer for the non cat cars to adjust the base CO level.
It is normally disconnected.
Old 01-31-2010, 10:41 AM
  #64  
fraggle
Rennlist Member
 
fraggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bristow, VA
Posts: 3,402
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Oops, I was wrong with the purpose but right that it isn't normally connected to anything.

Sorry man!
Old 02-02-2010, 02:05 AM
  #65  
88porsche928
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
88porsche928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

someone please let me know is relay IV is the ignition monitoring relay and the center top connection is where i plug the multi meter into
Old 02-02-2010, 02:09 AM
  #66  
88porsche928
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
88porsche928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

actually can some one please explain the ignition monitoring relay and 1a, 1b? i am assuming the top center one on relay IV is the 1a
Old 02-02-2010, 02:31 AM
  #67  
88porsche928
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
88porsche928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

i have a feeling i did this all wrong but here goes nothing

Red wire on pin 18 and black wire on top center of relay IV is -3.4
red wire on pin 18 black wire on right middle of relay IV is -3.4
red wire on pin 18 and black wire on bottom center of relay IV is -3.3
red wire on pin 18 and black wire on left middle of relay IV is 1
when the red wire from the multi meter is on pin 18 and the black wire is on ground the reading is - 3.6
alright when i plug the red wire in the top center of relay IV and the black on ground its 0.0
when i plug the red wire on the right side middle of relay IV and black on ground its 0.0
When I plug the red wire on the bottom center of relay IV and black on ground its 0.0
When I pug the red wire on the left middle of relay IV and the black on ground its -1
Old 02-02-2010, 02:28 PM
  #68  
88porsche928
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
88porsche928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I am assuming that terminal 1A is is the hole that is in relay IV when I take the relay out, can some one confirm this?
Old 02-02-2010, 05:14 PM
  #69  
dr bob
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
dr bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 20,506
Received 546 Likes on 409 Posts
Default

Dan, the ignition monitoring relay is mounted on a metal frame that holds the two engine controllers. This is right side of the passenger's footwell just forward of the door. There's a carpeted cover there with a snap. Pull the cover off and there's the relay on the bracket surface facing the driver's side, under the EZK brain. The relay is held to the bracket with a U-shaped retainer.

The connections to the relay are on the forward face, a socket that is not captive to the frame. They should be ID'd on the socket once you get it pulled from the relay. If you can't see any terminal markings, look for a red-with-green-tracer wire for terminal A1, and a red-with-yellow-tracer wire for terminal A2. (see WSM section 97, Model 89 Sheet 10, at coordinates J82, for these connections and wire colors. On the diagram, the relay is labelled "IGNITION CIRCUIT CONTROL" at the top center of the page at H81.)



The LH brain is the one closest to the door, sandwiched between the metal support frame and the car body. That's the connector you disengaged, the one you are connecting to terminal 18 (brown wire with red tracer) in the swing-away connector for the test.

Relay IV is not part of any of the testing you are doing.


Make sure that you are measuring OHMS with your meter, the monitoring/protection relay is removed, and all the injectors are still connected in the engine bay. The battery in the car is NOT connected. Test and post your results please.
Old 02-03-2010, 01:26 AM
  #70  
88porsche928
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
88porsche928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

STATUS, i removed the ignition monitoring relay and disconnected it from the connector, their are not markings on the connector itself however on the monitoring relay is see: 61, a2, 15, a1, 87, 31, e2, al, and e1. i looking in the manual and im not exactly sure if the colors are abbrievated and the diagram is not 3d so its kind of throwing me off.
Old 02-03-2010, 01:53 PM
  #71  
dr bob
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
dr bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 20,506
Received 546 Likes on 409 Posts
Default

Looking at the relay and the socket, you should be able to determine which pin goes in which slot. You are looking for A1 and A2 for this initial testing, and should be able to confirm your choice by looking for he correct wire color entering the socket slot from the other side. With the battery disconnected and only the meter as described, there's no possibility of damaging anything if you accidentally probe the wrong slot in the socket. This is very basic electrical troubleshooting/testing, and it takes much longer to type the descriptions here than it takes to do the actual testing.

The auto parts stores sell little male spade crimp-on connectors that you can stuff on the socket if your meter probe doesn't fit. Not a bad idea to make three 14ga stranded wires maybe 6" long with one of those connectors on each for this testing. You'll need two (for A1 and A2) now for the narrow-it-down tests described previously, and the third MIGHT be needed for Wally's test if everything passes the ohms tests I described. We won't even get started on that description until we do the ohms testing and see the results.
Old 02-03-2010, 05:08 PM
  #72  
Mrmerlin
Team Owner
 
Mrmerlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Philly PA
Posts: 28,259
Received 2,442 Likes on 1,371 Posts
Default

this might make testing easier by following these instructions you should be able to figure out whats working
Thanks to DrBob for posting this
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr bob View Post
The meter tests I shared are extremely definitive when diagnosing harness problems on '89+ cars. Did you find a short in the harness, an open circuit, or a short to ground? If not, it's possible to create new problems while 'fixing' the old harness, where no problems existed before.



Test procedure simplified:

-- With the ignition protection relay out:

A1) Ohms between LH connector 18 and relay socket terminal 1A should be about 4 ohms. Much more means an open in a connector, injector coil, or a broken conductor in the harness.

A2) Ohms between LH connector 18 and relay socket terminal 1A (same test...) should be about 4 ohms. Less than 2 ohm means you have an internal short between conductors in the harness. This is the damage you reported when cutting open that first connector boot.

B1) Ohms between LH connector 18 and relay socket terminal 1B should be about 4 ohms. Much more means an open in a connector, injector coil, or a broken conductor in the harness.

B2) Ohms between LH connector 18 and relay socket terminal 1B (same test...) should be about 4 ohms. Less than 2 ohm means you have an internal short between conductors in the harness. This is the damage you reported when cutting open that first connector boot.

C) Ohms between LH connector 18 and ground should be infinite. If they are less than 1 ohm, you have a short to ground on the LH side of the harness, and it could be at any injector.

D) Ohms between LH connector 18 and ground should be infinite. If they are around 4 ohms, you have a short to ground on the power side of the harness, and it could be at any injector. Proceed to E1 and E2 to narrow down where it might be.

-- E1) Ohms between protection relay socket at 1A and ground should be infinite. If they are less than 1 ohm, you have a short to ground on the power side of the harness, and it could be at injector 2, 3, 5, or 8.

-- E2) Ohms between protection relay socket at 1B and ground should be infinite. If they are less than 1 ohm, you have a short to ground on the power side of the harness, and it could be at injector 1, 4, 6, or 7.



*** Do these tests BEFORE you remove any of the injector connectors. The resistance values presume that you still have all the injectors plugged in. Each injector coil is real close to 16 ohms. Two coils connected is about 8 ohms, 3 connected is a little over 5 ohms, four connected is 4 ohms. On the '89, the harness is separated on the power side and is fed through those two contacts on the protection relay; with the relay removed they are connected only on the ground (LH brain) side, and to the brain through LH terminal 18. With that protection relay installed, the power sides are connected to each other through the relay contacts, and also to the heating coil on the oxygen sensor, even when the LH power relay is not energized.


PLEASE POST WHAT YOU FIND WITH YOUR METER.
Old 02-06-2010, 03:01 PM
  #73  
88porsche928
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
88porsche928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

pin 18 to a1 4.3
pin 18 to a2 4.4
pin 18 to 87 13.75
pin 18 to 31 16.32
a1 to ground 16.4
pin 18 to ground 16.42
Old 02-06-2010, 09:26 PM
  #74  
dr bob
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
dr bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 20,506
Received 546 Likes on 409 Posts
Default

You have something grounded in the FI harness. A1 or A2 or 18 to ground (actual circuit 31 which is the ground bus, not always the 31 pin on a relay) should be infinite. Did you measure to ground, or to a relay socket 31? The 31 socket for that protection relay is in fact ground, so if that's what you tested you can start looking for the stray ground in the injector harness.

I'm also not clear in why there would be any continuity between 18 in the LHA connector and 87. Which 87 did you test to? If to the 87 on the protection relay socket, this means nothing except confirming that there is still a ground someplace in the FI harness. The 87 on that socket is shared as power with several other loads that ultimately offer conductivity to ground -- when the LH connector is attached to the controller--. Can you confirm that the test you did 18 -> 87 is at 87 on the protection relay, and that the reading is in OHMS, and not MEGOHMS?
Old 02-06-2010, 11:01 PM
  #75  
88porsche928
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
88porsche928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Dr. bob. My multi meter is on auto. I have an idea, its going to take a couple hours to complete


Quick Reply: 1989 porsche 928 no start



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 09:06 PM.