GTS Engine project
#16
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Friend wants to have low CR 100mm pistons for 5.4L GTS crank SC engine and thus we are looking manufacturer which can still produce Alusil pistons old enviromentally unfriendly way. It seems some later style coating is only option. They are probably better and better as more engines are done with them but I'm not yet convinced they are relialble enough to take a risk in using them. At least not all of them made by just any company.
I've got a set of 100mm low compression pistons with steel rings. They should run on dry cast iron liner or Nikasil in case you ship the block to Sweden for plating. They will not work on Alusil. The compression height is stock S4, and the the valve reliefs fit 968 valves. They weigh about 500g without rings and pins. Forged 4032 aluminum, mae by Pure Performance Motorsports. CR with S4 heads should be in the 8.3:1 neighborhood.
I'll sell those reasonably cheaply if you're interested. My finances have improved, and my plans for the "big" engine have expanded with it.
Tuomo
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I've got a set of 100mm low compression pistons with steel rings. They should run on dry cast iron liner or Nikasil in case you ship the block to Sweden for plating. They will not work on Alusil. The compression height is stock S4, and the the valve reliefs fit 968 valves. They weigh about 500g without rings and pins. Forged 4032 aluminum, mae by Pure Performance Motorsports. CR with S4 heads should be in the 8.3:1 neighborhood.
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Hi,
So Erkka are you using alusil in your 2 engines and thus alusil coating for your new 103mm pistons?
What make are those 103mm pistons by the way?
Still wondering what to do.
I just read on 928Motorsports home page that they also make custom pistons.
Are they something to consider over and above the Ross Pistons?
They are called Arias...
Here is the link:
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...ed_pistons.php
So Erkka are you using alusil in your 2 engines and thus alusil coating for your new 103mm pistons?
What make are those 103mm pistons by the way?
Still wondering what to do.
I just read on 928Motorsports home page that they also make custom pistons.
Are they something to consider over and above the Ross Pistons?
They are called Arias...
Here is the link:
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...ed_pistons.php
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What make are those 103mm pistons by the way?
I just read on 928Motorsports home page that they also make custom pistons.
Are they something to consider over and above the Ross Pistons?
They are called Arias...
Here is the link:
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...ed_pistons.php
Are they something to consider over and above the Ross Pistons?
They are called Arias...
Here is the link:
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...ed_pistons.php
#20
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Thx Erkka.
Thats very informational.
May I ask where and at what price you are having steel liners inserted?
You see I contacted a company in Oslo that wanted alot for that job...
Since you are having steel liners, cant you drill out all the alusil and have even bigger pistons..?
Cheers and thx again.
Michael
Thats very informational.
May I ask where and at what price you are having steel liners inserted?
You see I contacted a company in Oslo that wanted alot for that job...
Since you are having steel liners, cant you drill out all the alusil and have even bigger pistons..?
Cheers and thx again.
Michael
#21
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Woessner has a coating that they claim is compatible with Alusil. The 951 guys have been using them for a while ( see Chris White ) and they report no problems yet. I'm keeping my eyes open for proven alternatives. In the BMW world, Dinan has done alot of development with Alusil engine blocks in regards to over boring and stroking. I wonder if we could find out which manufacturer they are using for their pistons. I'll see if I can find out.
Last edited by Fabio421; 11-16-2009 at 06:57 PM.
#22
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OK, I found it. Dinan buys their pistons from Mahle and Mahle makes them with the ferostan coating. See the video at 4:17 Is it possible to get a set of pistons from Mahle or will they only make them in very large batches? If they won't make a small batch, will they coat pistons that you send to them?
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Michael, I haven't got much time for a reply but the difference in the piston material determines the size of the bore. If you get it wrong you will have major/catastrophic problems, so you can't really say I'll use these aftermarket pistons. I would strongly recommend you use the oversize factory pistons and be happy with that otherwise you will get yourself in very deep.
Greg
Greg
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Since you are having steel liners, cant you drill out all the alusil and have even bigger pistons..?
As Greg says. If your engine has problems in single or just few cylinders have it/them bored to 100.50mm factory oversize and have lapping done to all other cylinders. Of course boring must be done correctly and new piston(s) cost $$$ but its still easier to fix under 0.25mm deep problems in bores using factory methods than build basically whole new short block using somewhat questionable aftermarket methods.
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Very interesting find. Seems Mahle uses coating only in skirt area when old Porsche pistons have it everywhere. Other modern coatings like one Wössner uses seem to also be skirts only. I have seen several Porsche pistons which have had problems higher up above rings. Not just below oil ring. Wonder how these new style skirt only setups work in that regard.
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Erkka, Fabio and Greg....
Thx for the input!
Very helpful.
Spending lots of mullah and driving around with a potential time bomb isnt cool....
So installing a couple of 100,5mm pistons makes alot of sense...
I wonder tho what the stroker pros in the US do...?
Nikasil cylinders and customs pistons..?
Perhaps they are afraid of chiming in and giving away their secrets...!))
Thx for the input!
Very helpful.
Spending lots of mullah and driving around with a potential time bomb isnt cool....
So installing a couple of 100,5mm pistons makes alot of sense...
I wonder tho what the stroker pros in the US do...?
Nikasil cylinders and customs pistons..?
Perhaps they are afraid of chiming in and giving away their secrets...!))
#27
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Hi Michael!
Have you tried contacting these guy's for a quote on Nikasil?
http://www.blixtensracing.com/
They are in Huskvarna, Sweden.
If you already have, I'd be interested to know what they quoted you.
Have you tried contacting these guy's for a quote on Nikasil?
http://www.blixtensracing.com/
They are in Huskvarna, Sweden.
If you already have, I'd be interested to know what they quoted you.
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Hei Fuse,
Vel min kompis er i samme situajson og her er hva han fant ut ifra Blixtenracing:
Har fått pris på nikasil beleggning 25.000 sek, rå pris da dette koster ca 8000 nok i usa.
Very expensive in other words...!
Almost 4000 US for Nikasil coating....!
Har du en S4 manuell..?
Fortell meg mer om din bil..!
Mvh. Michael
Vel min kompis er i samme situajson og her er hva han fant ut ifra Blixtenracing:
Har fått pris på nikasil beleggning 25.000 sek, rå pris da dette koster ca 8000 nok i usa.
Very expensive in other words...!
Almost 4000 US for Nikasil coating....!
Har du en S4 manuell..?
Fortell meg mer om din bil..!
Mvh. Michael
#29
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I've had two engines with the Ross pistons in them. Both were junk before 100 miles....Unless they have changed things ...doubt this is an option.
I've had Mahle 968 pistons (US made Mahle...not only incorrect, but they won't do anything about it...companies that don't back up their products and their claims...well, they will go down the road of the rest of the companies that tried doing business like this....see ya...the US consumers will not put up with this) and they ruined the bores in less than 500 miles.
Pretty simple thing to figure out....you've got a GTS with 220,000km....that used stock, factory components. Why fight it? The stock parts work and they are still available! When you take it apart, measure the bores. If they are good and the pistons seem ok, drill the pistons and buy a set of stock rings. They will seal and work perfectly. If the bores are oversized, buy a set of factory replacement pistons and bore it to 100.5mm. Put it back together and forget it.
There are places to cut corners and save a few dollars, but this is not one of them. Use what works and is still available. Do your gambling somewhere else.
BTW....we use NIcasil and J&E/CP pistons in all our strokers. They seem to work great....however there aren't hundreds of them out there, and they don't have 220,000km's on them.
I've had Mahle 968 pistons (US made Mahle...not only incorrect, but they won't do anything about it...companies that don't back up their products and their claims...well, they will go down the road of the rest of the companies that tried doing business like this....see ya...the US consumers will not put up with this) and they ruined the bores in less than 500 miles.
Pretty simple thing to figure out....you've got a GTS with 220,000km....that used stock, factory components. Why fight it? The stock parts work and they are still available! When you take it apart, measure the bores. If they are good and the pistons seem ok, drill the pistons and buy a set of stock rings. They will seal and work perfectly. If the bores are oversized, buy a set of factory replacement pistons and bore it to 100.5mm. Put it back together and forget it.
There are places to cut corners and save a few dollars, but this is not one of them. Use what works and is still available. Do your gambling somewhere else.
BTW....we use NIcasil and J&E/CP pistons in all our strokers. They seem to work great....however there aren't hundreds of them out there, and they don't have 220,000km's on them.
I am all confused now...
Some people tell me that the Ross Pistons will be fine and that they use the right coating.
A nice chap in Southern Sweden is running such in his bored up 5l unit in his 944 Race car.
But like Greg mentioned, he had only done a few miles on his engine...
I could just put he original pistons back as I have new rings on them and the tops are overhauled.
But my mech says it probably will have blue smoke or at least burn oil alot...
928 Int sell GTS pistons at a discount these days. 100,5mm in size.
They are original Porsche and would give me a very fresh original spec engine.
But I was thinking I might as well try customs pistons and bore it up to 5,8l or whatever 103mm will give me. That should give me maybe 50 extra horses and nice torque...
Please advice...
Erkka, didnt you bore up and overhaul one of your GTS units?
Cheers, Michael
Some people tell me that the Ross Pistons will be fine and that they use the right coating.
A nice chap in Southern Sweden is running such in his bored up 5l unit in his 944 Race car.
But like Greg mentioned, he had only done a few miles on his engine...
I could just put he original pistons back as I have new rings on them and the tops are overhauled.
But my mech says it probably will have blue smoke or at least burn oil alot...
928 Int sell GTS pistons at a discount these days. 100,5mm in size.
They are original Porsche and would give me a very fresh original spec engine.
But I was thinking I might as well try customs pistons and bore it up to 5,8l or whatever 103mm will give me. That should give me maybe 50 extra horses and nice torque...
Please advice...
Erkka, didnt you bore up and overhaul one of your GTS units?
Cheers, Michael