Hi Greg,

Sorry for any confusion--I was referring to you answering Dr. Bob's question(s)--and I think your post was completed while I was composing mine.

So the HF tool DOES need a 2nd guage?


Dr. Bob's call. If he can match the specs of your atomizer then your settings should work, no?

Anyway, Dr. Bob is handling getting all the details ironed out--he IS the Dr., after all. When you guys have it all scoped out, I expect that it will be a matter of bringing chemicals and following directions when it's all ready.

 

As far as the HF tool needing or not needing two gauges, I have no idea, but the BG one does, I suspect that there is a metering orfice between the tank and the hose, plus the one on the Atomizer.

Personally I would get the proper BG tool, or at the very least find one that you can use to match the flow rates.

Like I have said in previous posts, I have used the vacuum port method with poor results, it seems like the atomized mixture has to go past the very small opening of the throttle plate.

In that small area you go from basically atmospheric pressure to 15 inches or so, that in itself is going to really vaporize the cleaner and that is what you want.

Remember, do this with the engine at normal operating temps and then go drive the crap out of it before it can cool down.

PS, maybe I should go back to signing my posts "The Other Greg" to avoid confusion.

 

Details: The H-F tool has a guage at the discharge end of the the cannister, but it's upstream of the discharge valve. The supplied gauge therefore reads the inlet air pressure plus some frction of a PSI caused by the head of the fluid in the can-- negligible on this gauge. The discharge valve is a needle valve OK, and if ai need to add a gauge there too it's no problem. That would give an idea how the valve is limiting flow. In the FI cleaning mode that valve should be wide open anyway, with pressure regulated by the air regulator not the needle valve. I'll have to guess that the H-F needle valve serves a purpose similar to what the fixed orifice does in the B-G. Plan is to set the rate on the needle valve equivalent to 15 mins for 16oz, the rate that Greg mentioned earlier, but only for intake cleaning.

The nozzle I made for the intake cleaning is very similar to the B-G device shown earlier. I bought a 12" piece of 3/16" steel brake line, and used an angle fitting at the discharge end that adapts the tube thread to 1/8" NPT male. Soldered the end of that closed, and drilled a tiny hole in the soldered end to limit flow and droplet size. I can dimple the end of the hole if needed to get a mist, but at this point I'm not too worried about that. The spray will be droplets onto the throttle plate and that throttle will be almost closed. It needs to support 1500 RPM with no real engine load. If the spray was actually fogged it would gather on the throttle plate anyway and flow in around the downstream edge of the plate the same way.

I need to get a few tube fittings and connectors to get at all tied together, but I'm real close. Might do a test/eval run tomorrow on my car with Seafoam in the can, after a metering run with just water to get the valve setting close. The instructions recommend no air pressure added for the intake cleaning, so it will be interesting to see if atmosphereic pressure and gravity are enough to get a real spray pattern at the nozzle I made. I have a real commercially-made spray nozzle but the hole in that looks huge for a 1 oz per minute flow requirement. That's what drove the drilled fitting substitution by the way, since the nbiiger hole at the low rate just dribbles rather than atomizing.

And you are the principle Greg for this adventure. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with us.

More film at 11 after I get the right hose connectors made up.

 

More updates--

I have all the parts and pieces here ready for a demo on an unsuspecting victim's car. Since my car passed smog last week it's not a good candidate any more. But Larry M's car is. Late S4, failed smog a week or so ago on NOx. And it's Red like Luan's car in San Diego, the one that responded so well when he had this done at a shop, with excellent results.

If we get similar results with larry's car, the tool wiill be added to our local arsenal, available to others as needed. I will need a couple snap-happy assistants with digi-cams to help document the process. Dwayne is probably busy, so anybody ready to help with that part? Clinic time...

 

Bob,

See my email. Have camera, will travel.

stp

 

I would love to see the fogger in action, when is this clinic happenin'? I'll make every effort to attend.

 

Turns out (per Rolf this morning) that Larry is in the throws of recovering (slowly) from a flu shot. Clinic schedule is now dependent on his health. We may also need to do a radiator end-tank replacement on his car, since he has some spurious seepage issues on the pass side tank.

I'll keep the group posted on schedule developments.

-----

Stephen, we will probably need to get with your BG rep to get more chems. There's already a line forming at the end of the driveway for intake cleaning. Larry needs it for sure to get through his smog check and get the registration current. I have one kit that Rob bought on ebay a few months ago.

Ingredients list on the cans looks like common poisons (toluene, xylene, acetone) plus one or two two other not-so-common aromatic solvents. This isn't something I'm quite ready to do any mad-scientist stuff with. Rob, do you gave access to a GC and MS we could run a few samples on?

 

HPLC, LC/MS, GC/MS, HPCE, LC-ESI-MS, you name it, we got it. I probably even have some TLC plates and some phosphomolybdic acid around here somewhere.

Larry shouldnta gotten the flu shot, he's old enough that he's probably got natural immunity to whatever minor H1N1 variant was around when he was a kid....

 

I'll contact him and see what's available and if he will sell cases to us and what products are available.

The three products we've been talking about, according to my understanding are:

1. # 206: liquid can of intake cleaner. (Not the aerosol packaged version.) For use with the "Dr. Bob Injecta-Flush" tool.

2. # 210: liquid fuel injector cleaner, for use with the "Dr. Bob Injecta-Flush."

3. # 208 (or 208a): the BG 44K "all-purpose" cleaner that goes into the gas tank.

I remember the rep saying that there is a 2-product kit for intakes which is a can each of 206 and 44K. 12 kits to a case.

I didn't ask him about the 210 injector cleaner.

How many cars?

Also, if anyone on the list has alternate sources for this stuff, chime in. I'm not sure how the BG rep will receive this request. He seemed to make a big deal out of selling the tool(s) along with the chemicals and doing a "training." Don't know if he just wanted to sell more or if there are liability/contractual issues with selling to non-BG-trained/authorized dealers.

The 44K is all over eBay. The 210 fuel injector, very limited. I have not seen any of the 206 advertised there.

 

How did all of this turn out? I'm curious if you were able to buy the BG tools from that rep? How did the HF tool work out? I have a newer Audi A6 with the FSI motor. The FSI motors suffer from carbon build-up on the valves leading to various issues. I'm thinking several induction system cleanings will help but would rather do it myslef than pay a shop to do it.

 

I think anyone with a GTS should attempt a carbon inspection with a boroscope through a spark plug hole.

 

BG is top quality stuff but the best results of any treatment depend as much on the process as the chemical itself.

Lexus engines are starting to experience huge carbon deposits on the backside of the valve such that it actually starts interfering with the valve closing and results in code p0300 (random misfire) and the P0301....p0302....etc. which correspond the the misfiring cylinder.

I am seeing valves that look like they have a large hershey's kiss shoved down the stem of the valve up to the valve backside.

If the 928 is not seeing these deposits of biblical proportions, then the application of BG products is the way to go.

If you are seeing the monster deposits I described, it could be well possible you need something stronger such as GM top engine clean.



This stuff works amazing at removing huge deposits but it's strength demands that much care should be taken in how it is applied.

It also smells like the blue stuff in a porta potty which is a strangely sweet smell that is somehow extremely nauseating to me.....it just grosses me out.

Lexus tsib recommends only putting an ounce down the spark plug holes, cranking engine with spark plugs out, leave for 1/2 hour, crank engine again, leave for another half hour, spray a small amount of lubricant (cleaner leaches lube away) down plug holes, crank engine with spark plug holes open again, and then putting things back together such you can start the car as soon as possible.

They stress getting the car back running as quickly as possible so my guess is that this stuff would be harmful if left for any amount of time.

Time is very important with every aspect of this process as I believe the solvent could seep past the rings if you don't crank the engine over right away to spread the solvent across the piston top.

I also don't think this stuff should be used for intake tract cleaning.....BG has your needs fulfilled with thier stuff.

In spite of the directions on the service bulletin, we go a step further by pulling the intake plenum and applying the liquid directly to the backs of the valves in addition to putting some down the spark plug holes to clean the top of the piston.

After that, we button engine up fast, and drive it easy as it warms up and hazes the area with white smoke.....then full throttle italian tune up time accompanied by huge clouds of black smoke (the carbon leaving the engine)

The amount of smoke requires you to do this somewhere where the smoke won't adversely affect the area......unless you like the smell of a freshly refilled porta potty.

 

try looking on reutterwork forums......Stephen tends to frequent there more often.....I think his handle is Gr8red or something similar.....just do a search for Sharky and you will find my long lost 928 :>(

 

Jeremy--

I used the system on James M's Euro85 project car with good results. Most of that effort was spent on flushing injectors with the tank, an for that it worked quite well. I passed one can of intake cleaner through that car too. Made a ton of smoke, but I didn't take anything apart past the MAF to see whet the final appearance was.

 

Amazing.....I spend half an hour authoring a detailed post on this thread about what we do at lexus for this issue and also the fact that I believe BG to be the only chemical's manufacturer that can actually deliver on it's promises and got a message that the reply must be approved before it would post.

Mods?.....was it approved or did it evaporate?