danglerb

Googled PEA, found this ...

http://www.chevron.com/products/ourf...tives/tcp.aspx

"The current state-of-the-art treatment is an additive called polyether amine (PEA). Developed by Chevron... it carries the company's trade name TECHRON."
–Motor Trend Magazine

Stephen Porter

On this point, granted that a compression test is not the best, or even a good method, what would the abnormally high readings, after 10-12 pumps indicate?

This was/is kind of my thinking also. I'm sure I'll end up doing it anyway for just these reasons.

Stephen Porter

Greg--sorry I'm posting out-of-order here, responding to this after responding to a later post below....

So the $120 is for the intake service, for which you have to use the canister?

Can you buy the fluid separately? And is there a separate fluid for intake and injectors?

If the fluid is available then maybe I can piggy-back on Dr. Bob's solution and contribute to the pump? At the very least I would only have to pay someone for the intake part. But the conversations I had to day didn't give me much confidence in getting it done correctly.

Mrmerlin

Steve run the engine to 5500 RPM in a lower gear gear and do this a few times every time you drive the car once its warmed up of course.
I like the BG treatment as i have heard good things about it, and used it......I have also had good results by adding a can of Techron to the fuel tank and doing lots of short drives, this gives the fluid time to soak into the parts.
That said, I think that your searching for something to fix that isnt broken ............
Just go drive the car, Brian had it dialed in to do just that, once you make your mind up that there are problems then you will possibly damage something or create other problems.......
Put another way if you drive the car and run the engine to 5500 RPM a few times you will keep it clean and running great.
If you absolutely must have the intake cleaned I would take it to Dr Bob/ Bill Ball, Greg Brown or some other knowledgeable person

worf928

Except for proximity to the MAF sensor. I'm just paranoid about getting any chems on the hot wire.

Yup. That's why I think introducing the BG via the Y-hose directly into the rear of the throttle body would be best. And it's easy to get too. IMHO. (Have to block off one or the other ends though.)

And like EE writes above, you have to make sure none of it pools in the bottom of the air guide. A Porsche tech up here - the only one I'd trust to work on one of my 928s - told me that BG told them to stop using BG on 928s because of the design of the air guide and the potential for pooling. That's easy to deal with though.

Stephen Porter

Thanks...this sounds do-able.


Point taken....and very true. I'm trying to create very SMALL and INSIGNIFICANT problems until I know more about what I'm doing... then I can go for something more impressive. I've already solved: getting the car into the garage; changing wiper blades; removing the deteriorating black paint from the rear logo; and getting a suitable car cover!

Sounds like something like this may be in the works and I think that would be an ideal solution. I'll see Dr. Bob at the Chowderhead lunch tomorrow and check that out more. In the meantime, I'll start picking my 5,500 RPM spots.

BTW, my compliments on your car....that has GOT to be one of the prettiest color and color combo's I've ever seen. Where the heck did you find that?

Mrmerlin

Thanks for the comments, the Elfenbein Perl car was an Ebay special, it was stolen, however it was also driven like it was stolen.
It had leaks from every part that held fluid

Mrmerlin

BTW since Brian spent all of his time working on getting the car sorted you should really only be going shopping for oil and filter as there should not be much thats needed for that awesome car you got.............
There is also another saying,............. keep fixing it till its broke.......
The one i like though is....

If its not broke dont fix it!

Stephen Porter

MM....

I agree. It's very tempting to worry and I actually am aware that doing so can be the source of more problems. The reason I bought Sharky instead of a lot of other possible cars is precisely because of all the work and care Brian lavished on the car. I have all of his records of mainteance that stretch back to printouts of Rennlist threads that tell the story of how Sharky was rescued from a timing belt disaster, went to Devek and ended up with Brian, who then went through just about everything imaginable on the car before becoming addicted to racing and brand new M3's: a deadly combination that afforded me the opportunity to get an exceptional car. I hope I can keep the car in close to the shape he put her in.

danglerb

From post #3 in this thread, link to ebay auction of the 3 main BG products.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=250484900588

blown 87

Yes, 120 for the three part kit installed.
You should be able to get each part locally, I know I sell them by them self.
Shipping is the problem.

It will pool unless you keep the RPM up.


Number three is the way to do it.
We all have seen the junk that builds up on the backs of throttle bodies and you want some of it to go through the IAC.
This helps to atomize the intake cleaner part of the three part kit.

Greg Nettles

blown 87

That is a different kit, it only has the air intake cleaner.

dr bob

Greg, You've been in the business a while and see a lot of trends and 'amazing new never used before formulas with breakthrough technology' and the like. Everybody has the best product there is. Meanwhile, to blast carbon from intakes and piston tops/combustion chambers, water has been a preferred method for decades. The thermal shock and the rapid expansion of the liquid to vapor do tend to get built-up deposits cleaned off pretty quickly. So the question is-- How much better does the BG intake cleaner work than water? Would a cocktail of paint thinner and toluene, another hot-rodder's favorite, get similar results without the engine stalling inherent with the water/steam treatment? Marvel Mystery Oil, basically a mineral oil with detergent additives, give similar results? Marvel has been around for decades, with some pretty impressive results that have become folklore-ish over the decades. I know that the injector flush needs to be something the car can run on without damaging oxy sensors or cats, but the intake cleaner doesn't necessarily need to have any of those traits except when it comes to sensor or cat damage. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts, and those of any others who remember cars before they became unmaintainable by the average Joe.

Stephen Porter

I spoke with the sales rep from the local BG distributor today. I wasn't getting any warm and fuzzy feelings from any of their local franchisees, or whatever the appropriate term is and I wanted to see if these things could be purchased directly.

Their policy is to sell only to shops but the distributor put me in touch with the LA sales rep. I explained our situation--local 928 guys who might like to use his product, but didn't trust turning their cars over to the local AAMCO shop. He said he would be willing to sell the "atomizer" tool and the chemicals to the local 928 guys if that was something we wanted to do together.

He also said that before handing over the tool and a case of the 2-part intake cleaner solutions (minimum purchase), he would also have a tech conduct a short training seminar on proper use of BG products--also required. There is some mention in this thread about BG not recommending their cleaner for 928's and I explained that was exactly why we wouldn't want to trust anyone not familiar with the car to do the service.

The cost of the "Inject-A-Flush Apparatus," (don't you love marketing???!) is kind of pricey: $285 + $75 for an "adapter" (required)???

There are two separate chemicals used in the intake cleaning procedure. A case of twelve 2-part kits is about $27/per kit, or another so that's another $324.

So, it's roughly $750 for the first 12 cleanings, or $63 apiece. After that it would just be the chemicals and the price of the "Apparatus" would be amortized after that. If this made sense maybe Dr. Bob could be "Custodian of the Apparatus," or it could be loaned out to the OC guys for intake cleaning parties.

I don't know if there are enough people in L.A. interested in this and/or whether it makes any sense at these prices. And Dr. Bob and others may have cheaper and more clever ways to accomplish this anyway. But it's an alternative.

Also, rep confirmed that the fuel injection service can be done just by adding it to the gas tank, except in cases where injectors might be really gunked up.

blown 87

Bob, in cases that the carbon is mostly on the pistons, a little water will seem to do the job, the gum on the back sides of the valves is a different thing all together.

I am sure some of the old ways work, but I doubt they work as well as the BG stuff.

I never did believe in a "Mechanic in a can" until I started using the BG products, I am sold on it now.

Marvell mystery oil paint thinner and other things I really do not have any way to compare them, in the old days we did not have borscopes (affordable any way) so unless you tore a engine apart there was no way to tell "How Much".

I know that does not answer your questions, but my suggestion is to look on E-bay for the tool, find a shop that is willing to sell you the cans either one at a time, or in the three part kits.

Them trying to say you have to buy it in cases is BS, worse comes to worse I will sell you guys the product at my cost + what ever shipping is if that will help.