Virginia's Block Gets Drilled - By a Failed Water Pump
08-25-2009, 12:06 AM
#46
Drifting
kudo's to roger and greg for an informative comaprison of laso vs porsche....thank you guys!! this really cleared up some lingering questions I had on differences.
andy
andy
08-25-2009, 01:35 AM
#47
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Greg and Roger --
So do I get this right?
Based on Roger's large sample, Laso news pumps are more reliable than Porsche's new pumps, although his sample of Porsche's pumps is small.
Based on Greg's experience, Porsche's new pumps are more reliable than Laso new pumps. Greg's got a smaller sample of Laso pumps than Roger, but in addition Greg's looking at the components and logically concluding that Laso can't be very reliable.
In addition, both of you agree that the catasthrophic failure is less likely to be caused by failing Porsche pump than by a Laso pump, because the Porsche pump has a plastic impeller and the Laso pump has a metal impeller.
Also, both of you think that there are significant differences between various version of the Laso pump and all of them should be inspected before installing them.
Is this fair and balanced summary?
So do I get this right?
Based on Roger's large sample, Laso news pumps are more reliable than Porsche's new pumps, although his sample of Porsche's pumps is small.
Based on Greg's experience, Porsche's new pumps are more reliable than Laso new pumps. Greg's got a smaller sample of Laso pumps than Roger, but in addition Greg's looking at the components and logically concluding that Laso can't be very reliable.
In addition, both of you agree that the catasthrophic failure is less likely to be caused by failing Porsche pump than by a Laso pump, because the Porsche pump has a plastic impeller and the Laso pump has a metal impeller.
Also, both of you think that there are significant differences between various version of the Laso pump and all of them should be inspected before installing them.
Is this fair and balanced summary?
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GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
08-25-2009, 01:37 AM
#48
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Tuomo,
Sorry but my math was an example not a reality. Just an illustration.
Facts - Very few Porsche new pumps are sold and they have been know to fail - not good when working out a % failure.
Laso have had failures but based on a % of pumps sold the rate is very small - less than 0.5%
The improved Laso pump has no known failures at the moment - very good. I am not saying it will not fail but its track record looks promising.
Rebuilds - thousands sold and based on what we know about 0.5% failure rate. Not bad but when you take into acount the fact the same pumps are being rebuilt time and time again with no records or consideration to fit and function - that is scary and a large bomb waiting to happen.
Currently some rebuilds have plastic impellers as do the Porsche pumps. Laso will shortly also have a plastic impeller.
All pumps I sell must be inspected - no exceptions.
Greg did disect some of the pumps and concluded that the internals of the Laso and the Porsche pumps were good quality.
Greg,
For the record I know exactly where you are and respect your decision on the Porsche pump. In your shoes I would use the same.
Roger
I sell water pumps and need to fully understand the possibilities that exist.
When a customer says he can't afford a $800 pump there has to be some compromises. I have to be able to point those out. We can't just say park your car until you can afford it.
This is not about Greg or Roger - its about WP's and what considerations need to be taken into acount when buying a WP. Cost v failure.
Plastic impeller does away with the reaming of the block but also has its own downsides as some have found.
Sorry but my math was an example not a reality. Just an illustration.
Facts - Very few Porsche new pumps are sold and they have been know to fail - not good when working out a % failure.
Laso have had failures but based on a % of pumps sold the rate is very small - less than 0.5%
The improved Laso pump has no known failures at the moment - very good. I am not saying it will not fail but its track record looks promising.
Rebuilds - thousands sold and based on what we know about 0.5% failure rate. Not bad but when you take into acount the fact the same pumps are being rebuilt time and time again with no records or consideration to fit and function - that is scary and a large bomb waiting to happen.
Currently some rebuilds have plastic impellers as do the Porsche pumps. Laso will shortly also have a plastic impeller.
All pumps I sell must be inspected - no exceptions.
Greg did disect some of the pumps and concluded that the internals of the Laso and the Porsche pumps were good quality.
Greg,
For the record I know exactly where you are and respect your decision on the Porsche pump. In your shoes I would use the same.
Roger
I sell water pumps and need to fully understand the possibilities that exist.
When a customer says he can't afford a $800 pump there has to be some compromises. I have to be able to point those out. We can't just say park your car until you can afford it.
This is not about Greg or Roger - its about WP's and what considerations need to be taken into acount when buying a WP. Cost v failure.
Plastic impeller does away with the reaming of the block but also has its own downsides as some have found.
08-25-2009, 01:43 AM
#49
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08-25-2009, 01:48 AM
#50
Drifting
Block machining is muh less likely to happen with the plastic impeller. But impeller disintegration is much more likely to happen with a plastic impeller than a metal one. So, pick your poison. Would you rather have block machining or overheating?
08-25-2009, 02:47 AM
#51
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PORSCHE REBUILT PUMP
Hello when i had my timing belt and water pump job 2years ago i opted to buy a rebuilt unit from Porsche . They have a 2yrs fact warranty and if it fails i figured they would pay for the damages......Just my thought...
08-25-2009, 03:15 AM
#52
Three Wheelin'
I have a question,
when you guys say that the Porsche pumps fail too, do you mean they develope a leak or the impeller comes off like the Laso ones ?
If the impeller comes off on the Porsche pumps, has it happened to the plastic and the metal ones or just the plastic ones ?
Also,
Roger
How many new style Laso pumps have you sold ?
when you guys say that the Porsche pumps fail too, do you mean they develope a leak or the impeller comes off like the Laso ones ?
If the impeller comes off on the Porsche pumps, has it happened to the plastic and the metal ones or just the plastic ones ?
Also,
Roger
How many new style Laso pumps have you sold ?
08-25-2009, 03:36 AM
#53
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08-25-2009, 09:38 AM
#54
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How much lighter is the plastic impeller and how much more HP does that net?
Guess the Weissach engineers never saw a WP failure or I'd guess they'd wire up a warning wire to the WP so when it contacts the block, it'd complete a circuit. Or would coolant have enough conductivity to make this sort of warning system not werk.
Guess the Weissach engineers never saw a WP failure or I'd guess they'd wire up a warning wire to the WP so when it contacts the block, it'd complete a circuit. Or would coolant have enough conductivity to make this sort of warning system not werk.
08-25-2009, 01:09 PM
#55
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For a little peace of mind couldnt one just tack the impeller and pulley then stick a bent piece of metal on one of the bolt holes close to the edge of the pulley if the bearing moves you will hear it like the tab on brakes
08-25-2009, 01:41 PM
#56
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I've thought about a warning of some sort off and on, and I am afraid of anything not bolted in at least two places, in case it could get dislodged, and caught in the belt.
I've thought of using something like a brake pad warning sensor under the pulley connected to the (unused with the PKsn'r) tension light circuit, but the pulley doesn't have to move very far to start machining, so by the time you start making noise or the warning wire gets worn through, it's already happening. I suppose that's better than heavy duty machining.
I also thought of using a small (spring loaded) depth gauge widget installed in the center cover, over the center of the pulley. I think there are too many tolerances to make a color warning, but a graduated scale might work. This would show if the pulley is machining in or out. Even a small pin hole and a pin which you measure the distance occasionally would work.
I've thought of using something like a brake pad warning sensor under the pulley connected to the (unused with the PKsn'r) tension light circuit, but the pulley doesn't have to move very far to start machining, so by the time you start making noise or the warning wire gets worn through, it's already happening. I suppose that's better than heavy duty machining.
I also thought of using a small (spring loaded) depth gauge widget installed in the center cover, over the center of the pulley. I think there are too many tolerances to make a color warning, but a graduated scale might work. This would show if the pulley is machining in or out. Even a small pin hole and a pin which you measure the distance occasionally would work.
08-25-2009, 01:43 PM
#57
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I was reluctant to leave the pump in there not knowing its condition, but this method will give me some indication of its condition and some peace of mind.
And for reusing the original housing, shaft, and impeller, sounds like a basic waterpump rebuild.
How would one do this (assuming the housing, shaft and impeller are in good shape)? Is it a DIY, or do I need to find someone with a press and some professional knowledge on how to use it?
We regularly swap out the wheel bearings on our dirt bikes so if its just a matter of pressing on the bearings and impeller properly, it sounds like a fairly easy operation.
08-25-2009, 08:26 PM
#60
This is bull**** with these efen water pumps screwing up perfect cars,sorry about this dwayne you were allways very nice to me,and went out of your way,if you need anything let me know.