Fabianrou

Well I guess my car really is special uh? The only 928 in history to have "hatch marks" I should freaking put it in eBay and make some money! Somehow I still have some humor

Thanks for the confirmation. This has been a learning experience and I sincerely appreciate and thank all of you for the support that I have received.

Hilton

The service manager's job is to ensure scheduling, work completed and customer satisfaction are all carried out in accordance with Porsche's policies. Sure he has to manage the people carrying out the service, which gives him a minor conflict of interest at the local level, however that won't be what his primary performance indicators are based on.

Call Porsche USA's customer service department, and politely explain the situation and request that a customer service ticket is opened up at the corporate level, as you don't have faith in the current mechanics' abilities with respect to the 928, and they've already caused issues with the car when servicing the car.

If the first person on the phone doesn't get it, ask to speak with their manager - the higher you go in Porsche, the faster you'll find someone who's been there since the 928 was still the production flagship, and who'll understand/respect, and possibly even like the car.

Fabianrou

I gues I'm priming myself to do all this but my personable side is fighting me and wants to give this guys another chance. But you are right in so many ways. It's a doggy dog world out there you know... and very few people value good character and noble feelings anymore. I can be very harsh when I'm cornered like this and I'm very capable of making a federal case out of this. All they had to do is convince me that there was no damage to the car but instead they want to take the loaner away from me because he said it cost them $40 dollars a day which I know is not true as well, so sad. You know how this cars are a labor of love to maintain and how attached we get to them, they are truly a work of art. I've had this car for around 15 years and put countless hours of labor of love and many thousands of dollars into it like we all have. All for someone to come in and by mistake wipe it all out like this. Jesus! at least do a leakdown test to try to pacify me. Now I'm getting to the point where that won't even satisfy me. Now I'm thinking I want to see that engine apart to see if there's any damage at all. Cheers mate.

Fogey1

"Crosshatch" struck me, too. That's the pattern left by the hone on a lightly/barely used cast iron cylinder wall. Very common, but not applicable to many Porsche motors and certainly not to the 928.

Get them to put that and the compression test results in writing, then take the car elsewhere to have it verified. While you're at the second place get them to do a leak down. Then decide what action to take.

BTW, what is an "Oil separation issue?"

OK, second edit. It occurred to me what they could be talking about with oil separation, though I'm at a loss to understand why they didn't figure it out and fix it.

To me, a second issue is raised. A fuel leak can fill the crankcase with gasoline and exacerbate an oil separation issue. If they're telling the truth about the compression numbers this may be what has happened. Pull the dipstick and check the oil level. Is it high? Smell it. Does it smell like gas? Drain the oil and smell it. You did mention a strong smell of gas.

You could actually get lucky and have a fixable problem. I had a gas filled crankcase once. Figured it out quickly, got the fuel problem fixed, changed the oil and put on 20K plus before I sold the car. I was lucky, too, it didn't have to come out that way after running with grossly thin oil.

Fogey1

I just picked up on "bought two Range Rovers there."

I think it's time to get the girlfriend and go speak to the OWNER of the dealership. He may actually care about keeping a free-spending customer, who probably also moves in circles of free-spending customers, happy. They could do a rebuild or buy and install a used motor for less than they made on one of those RangeRovers.

Fabianrou

From what I heard. Mrs. Reeves is pretty good about keeping customers happy but the problem is that without having actual mechanical knowledge how is she going to be able to make a decision? She's going to be bombarded by the mechanic trying to defend his point. Of course in the long run we could prove that he didn't diagnose the problem correctly the first time and/or the second time and that this caused the damage but who knows how long that would take.

Fabio421

Fabian,

Have you spoken to Leo Leal yet? If so, what did he say? He would make a great "expert witness".

Fabianrou

Yes I did. He sounded familiar with these cars. I think I will resort to him if at some point I need an independent opinion. Right now everything is up in the air. The car the car still at Reeves but I really don't see how we're going to resolve this because they still insist that there's no damage to the car because they saw the "hatch" marks still on the cylinders They're pushing me to the limit. They refused to do a leakdown test other than on two cylinders only (the ones flooded) because "it's too time consuming". To make matters worse as I said at the beginning we still don't even know if they may have blown a head gasket on the car themselves PLUS mis diagnose the cylinder wash as a oil separation issue as well. The first time I picked up the car they openly admitted letting the car idle for hours in the bay. To this day I still don't know why.

Fabianrou

I have always be able to walk around the bay and talk to the mechanic, ALWAYS. Now that this has happened and I wanted to check the dipstick they refuse to let me in there saying that "the big boss was walking around". Wouldn't you be suspicious?

Tampa 928s

I would make sure everything you were told is in writing or do not pick up the car.
You may have a bent rod that could show up after a high rpm run or in a few miles. Did they tell you they would not do the leak down test for free or just not do it?
Your next step is go political and take it up the chain of command. This is not a shade tree shop, someone made a mistake and leaves you with uncertainty as to the longevity of your motor. In most cases they feel everything is fine we fixed it so please don't question us or waist our time.
It would be interesting to have a few 928's show up, get a lot of attention asking to speak to the manager.
You may be fine but I would not want that doubt lingering in my mind every time I turned the key.

Fabianrou

Basically when I asked for a leak down they said verbatum: "fine I'll do two cylinders because is too time consuming". I never said I'll pay for it or anything like that. I don't think they would have the nerve to ask me to pay for the test after all that has happened. Even if I paid them to do all 8, the credibility is gone (specially after they said they found "hatch"marks in there ) so the report would not do me any good unless I stood right there with an independent 928 specialist while they did it. They said they did a compression test on two cylinders but I still have seen the reports. Hey that may not be a bad idea to get 20 or 30 928 in there, specially after the degrading comments made about Rennlist users. You hit the nail on the head about the thought lingering in my mind. The whole issue is pivoting on that thought. The mere possibility of a 1% damage to those cylinders walls or anything else such as a blown gasket due to them allowing the car to idle for hours and openly admitting it to me or telling me that smoke enough to cover four intersections at a traffic light is an "oil separation problem", or that I have "hatch"marks on an engine that was never made that way... is enough to have more than one thought lingering in my mind. The comical part is that they won't offer to do a complete leak down test in an attempt to clear their names. This is a text book case of "open mouth...insert foot"

Fabianrou

She bought the supercharged grill for the 2006 that was over 1000 bucks to give you an idea. Thousands were spent on repairs on that car alone.

I've been very nice to them up until this point and they have mistaken my kindness for stupidity. Even told me they wanted their loaner back when they have left me on foot. The 08 Ranger Rover we gave to my girlfriend's daughter, girlfriend drives the 06 and I won't drive anything else but my 928. I just driving it. I fall in love with that car every day all over again.

Fabio421

He would make a great "expert opinion" to bring along on your next visit to the dealership. You would probably have to pay him for a couple hours of his time but it will most likely save you many hours of your own. Leo is well known in the Porsche community.

Fogey1

Yes I would. At this point I believe I'd be in written "don't touch the car again until I have authorized it in writing" mode.

That doesn't mean I'd be quite ready to send the flatbed to fetch it to another shop, but if and when i got was/did I'd be documenting the tow and the receipt at the new shop in writing (and video?) And I'd have spoken to the new shop to be clear I'd need a detailed written report of findings.

I think the idea of taking a trusted third party expert to the dealership is excellent. That could help solve the problem for a lot of different reasons.

Have you spoken to the owner? Have you spoken to PCA? Mrs. Reeves owns the shop? Maybe you should take your girlfriend along when you speak with her.

At the very least take detailed, contemporaneous notes of EVERY contact you have from now on. Like: "Friday, 9/21/09 @ 11:47am spoke with receptionist Abbie and on hold for SvcMgr Jeff. Jeff on phone at 11:54. I say x, he responds y, etc, etc."

Polite, reasonable, firm, informed and in command of the facts is how you want to be.

Good luck.

Fabianrou

Good idea about keeping track of activity. You what's funny about all this... We all have our "buttons" that we don't want pushed right? Well mine came when he asked me for the loaner back. Up until that point I was listening to him and debating about the issue. After that I was done. At that very moment he lost me as a customer. I'll say it again the Svc. Mgr. is as nice of a guy as you could ever meet but I suppose he had to back up his mechanic at the risk of all the collateral damage that will arise from this. Would have been a lot cheaper for them to just own up to the mistake, fix it and lay it to rest. Instead they're trying to tell me I have "hatch" marks on a 928 and pull the wool over my face. Now I'm a whole new customer and as much as I like the guy I wont remove my car from there until they own up to their mistake and fix it. Of course all of it documented by a third party to be determined. As one of the other guys here said... they made so much more on those two Rovers we bought that they could have easily fixed this car and still come out ahead and keep a customer. Instead they tried to be slick because I act funny, my hair is long, kid around with them and walk in there with flip flops. Many lessons to be learned for them, and hopefully this whole mess helps to prevent this from happening again to any other 928 in Tampa.