Hilton

Interesting turbo manifold..

Nicole

Great post, except that the convertible might not happen, so I hear.

Why would they stop an opportunity to squeeze more money out of a big investment that has already been made?

heinrich

Nicole .. the Panamera will (I am very sure) be a MAJOR loss for Porsche. It does not look like a sportscar. And as any other sort of car, it fails miserably compared to anything it competes with, such as the much less expensive US models and Bentleys etc. This thing is a dead dog. VW would do well to call it such and continue building the excellent automobiles they do today undertheir other - successful - brands. Why build something that won't sell, at double the cost, when you already have that market covered?

Dean_Fuller

It looks like all they did was condense the Cayenne vertically....its a station wagon. Just my opinion.

hacker-pschorr

If it were actually as functional as a wagon (like the M5 version) that would be an improvement.

Every time I see the back end of the Panamera I'm reminded of an 84 era Cadillac Seville. It's like the design team ran out of money 3/4 of the way back so they just glued on a 911 tail.

tveltman

That's what everyone said about the Cayenne, but I believe it's their best selling model. Would I buy one? No, a sports car/SUV hybrid is retarded IMO, but lots of people like it, so Porsche obviously knew what was up. They wouldn't develop a car that they wouldn't think would sell, especially not with today's market research technology.

atb

Yes, and more importantly they are driving a cam gear on each cam. I'd love THAT on a 928.

JG928S4

Motor and $$$$$

69gaugeman

Everyone is going to chains now. They last FOREVER and require no service. My F150 had chains and almost 400k km. It is still running around here as far as I know.

Timing belt service is a major cost of maintaining a vehicle if someone else has to do it.

The original issues with chains were vibration that caused damage and the noise. They have obviously been able to engineer those out of the equation.

H2

There are too many more interesting cars available to buy for that kind of money. I agree with Heinrich.
That said, there may be a small market for a while....like for the 928. This market indeed may be for people who want a sedan...but not a sportscar or SUV...but still get the prestige that comes with the Porsche name.

It should depreciate pretty quickly though.

I've heard that there's no reasonable way this engine could be retrofitted to the 928. In theory, nice idea though.

H2

Nicole

I don't think I can agree with that assessment.

If you look at the competitive models within VW, you have very distinct characters of their luxury models, with little overlap in my opinion:

1. VW Phaeton: A blend of high tech and luxury in a conservative body without the attention one gets from driving one of the other brands. For the buyers it's an "understatement" thing... "I only drive a VW" - even though it's the finest one around.

2. Audi A8: That's VW's German premium brand with Aluminum body, 4-wheel drive, etc. but no stylistic experiments. A quality business express. More conservative and much lower priced than a Panamera, with less customization options.

3. Bentley Continental: British luxury based on the high tech platform of the Phaeton. Priced comparably to the Panamera, but totally different style.

4. Bentley Mulsanne: Ultimate British style luxury, positioned way above all of the above AND the Panamera.

5. Porsche Panamera: High tech, focused on top performance and handling, while offering more practicality than the others. A car for people who like to "do" more things with the car than the above. You can drive it hard, you can haul sports equipment inside, and you have a lot more prestige than with an Audi, but not the conservative British style of the Bentleys. Besides, you can customize a Porsche much more than most of the above. Also, resale will probably be best on the Porsche.


There are thingss that I don't like about the Panamera, and yes, I would prefer the Aston Martin Rapide over it, but I can't deny that the Panamera has lots of attractive qualities as an automobile.

I can complain all day long about the tail end not being as pretty as it could be (did you see the cleaned-up Gemballa version?), or the elephant ear vents, or the odd center console, etc. But in the end it's a car that does well what it promises, uses very little gas for its performance capabilities, has plenty of room and a flexible trunk, etc.

The hatchback set-up alone would make me favor it over any of the sedan style competitors. I have never in my life owned a sedan, and never will - simply because I don't see the point in such a limiting body style. I can't think of any of my friends in Germany who has ever owned a sedan, either - it's all hatchbacks, wagons, microvans, or sports cars. My dad owns a sedan, but finally realized how useless it is, so they bought an X3.

There was no hatchback offering in the luxury class before Panamera and Rapide, so I think they are cool. Not perfect, but a nice addition to the market.

In the end we'll have to see how buyers WORLDWIDE accept these models. There were lots of skeptics when the Cayenne came out, but it ultimately saved the company (only to be almost ruined again by financial deals). Remember that the US is no longer 50% of Porsche's business, and their growth is in emerging markets.

Let's give it some time. I'm sure the Panamera will make its way.

blown 87

Regardless of what the coupe looks like, somebody that owns a 928, that can not afford a new one (like me) is going to hate it and love it at the same time.

hacker-pschorr

You forgot to add visual aids

1. VW Phaeton




2. Audi S8




3. Bentley Continental (coupe looks even better)




4. Bentley Mulsanne




5. The ugly duckling.......




How about non VW group offerings? This is where the competition is light years ahead in the looks department


6. 2011 Mercedes CLS (even the first generation CLS is a striking auto)




7. BMW M5




8. Aston Martin Rapide - really, who in their right mind would buy a Panamera over this?

Nicole

Well... tastes are different, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I would never buy a Bentley, no matter how wealthy I was. In fact, seeing the new Mulsanne, I'm glad I don't have to drive (or ride in) such cars. They might represent money and luxury - maybe even excess - but they certainly don't represent ME.

As to the Aston - it is absolutely the more beautiful car. But I believe it is a bit more expensive to purchase, and a lot more expensive to maintain - let alone more hassle to maintain due to a smaller network of qualified service stations. People who want to use the car as a daily driver - even if money does not matter - might be less inclined to deal with this.

Mercedes CLS: A wonderful car - one of my favorite Mercedes models. Rides like a flying carpet with its air suspension. Less expensive than a Panamera, less sporty (except the souped-up AMG version), less prestige, less flexibility. Starts with much smaller engines in Europe (diesel is popular).

M5: It's quite rare that someone considers a BMW light years ahead of anything these days... However, the M5 is much smaller than the Panamera, from what I can tell. It's like comparing a CLS to an M3. Not a valid comparison for the new car shopper, I believe.

Panamera is far from perfect. But if you look at history, people were always screaming when a big brand changed their looks. When Mercedes introduced the plastic bumpers on the S-Class, people were crying and predicting the end of the automotive industry. THAT S-Class was the most successful of all times. Same when the Cayenne came-out. It was very successful. Here in Silicon Valley, it's the Soccer Mom Express...

Sometimes it takes people to get used to something new. If they get it right away, it's probably not new enough to remain interesting through the product life cycle. Porsche has internally mapped out the face lifts and modifications they are going to do in the next few years; I'm sure they will fix some of the things people can't get used to.

Be patient. The world is not coming to an end. At least not, yet.

Nicole

One more tidbit: VW's goal is to overtake Toyota as the largest car manufacturer by the year 2018. This requires continued massive growth, particularly in emerging markets like India, China, and possibly Russia. In an interview, Martin Winterkorn, Volkswagen CEO, and Michael Macht, Porsche CEO, indicated that a 5th model line and 150,000 cars per year are seen as realistic for Porsche, once the economy picks-up again.

Now we can speculate, if the Panamera coupe will be considered that "fifth" Porsche model, or if it will be a 4-cylinder mid-engine roadster positioned below the Boxster.

At this point, your guess is as good as mine.