bernard farquart

I don't know how many of the things that all happened at the same time are related or not, but I am trying to figure out my non running car, so any help of ideas appreciated.

I was driving, after having driven for about a half hour, two stops, no problem, I noticed the speedo was dropping, like the needle would just fall from 40 mph to 20, while I was going 40. weird, huh? then, I get about ten blocks farther, and the car shuts off. I coast in neutral, to a spot where I won't get hit, and start trying to re-start the car, it acts almost like it wants to start a few times, then nothing, then after I wait it acted like it was running on three or four cyl. So I call my GF, get her to come get me, and come back with a can of quick start (I know, I know) to see if I can figure out if I have a fuel of ignition issue. It will start and run on the starting fluid, but not after, with one exception, at one point, after screwing around with the starting fluid for a few minutes, letting if gasp, then die over and over, it ran GREAT for abount a minute, so I am picking up the pices of the airbox, and assembling it, and getting ready to drive home, and it dies again.

So, I have a fuel problem, I am thinking perhaps I got water in the last tank, from a station I do not usually frequent. My car is usually not picky about fuel, but maybe this was pretty bad.

A little backstory: I had a similar issue yesterday, I reached in and started the car throught the window (usually no problem) because I was going to check the fluid level in the tranny (auto) and the car ran for a minute, burbled and died, then did not want to restart. This is where the can of quickstart came from, because that time I was able to get it to start and run after four or five start cycles with the spray can.

I am going to go break the fuel lines open on the engine, and see if I can bleed whatever crap is in them and get her to start, plus try to figure out if the fuel pump is working (hard alone on the side of the road) I really don't want to tow-strap this thing home to the garage, but that is looking like a distinct possibility.

I guess I am posting this to see if :
1) anyone has had fuel pump/ relay issues that came and went like this? I would expect them to just fail, but I could be wrong.

and
2) I assume if it runs on the quick start, that I am only looking at the fuel pump circuit (assuming it isn't just crap gas) and not at any sort of nefarious computer issue?

Thanks in advance, I am going to go see if I can bleed it off,( It just occured to me that I should be able to see if the pump is working that way too.)

Paul, '84 auto, US model

86'928S MeteorGrey

jump the relay first. If that doesn't work, 95% chance you need a new fuel pump.

This is quick draw trouble shooting I know, but it's the most typical problem that acts like this. There are other issues like if the injectors are firing, but checking the fuel pump relay and pump first is the route I would personally take...

Every 928 owner should have a jumper wire pre made for the glovebox in case you need to jump a relay. A simple wire with two male terminals will work, though the same setup with about 3 feet of wire on each side of a toggle switch will allow you to turn the fuel pump on/off manually.

86'928S MeteorGrey

Your fuel pump relay is XVII. To jumper it, jump between 30 and 87. (or possibly 15 and 87 on your car)
The fuse number is 13. It's a 16 amp fuse.

dr bob

Jumping 15 -> 87 is tempting, but puts full fuel pump current load onto the ignition switch, exactly what the relay is intended to avoid. 30 ->87 will get the pump running for diagnostic purposes without risking collateral damage to ignition switch or associated wiring. Pull the jumper when the engine is off.

86'928S MeteorGrey

I thought the older cars didn't have a 30-87? My mistake.

It's been a while since I've had to jumper anything....(knock on wood)

928 at last

Paul, +1 on what Mike said.
Relay 1st and then pump issues. Mine died this spring on the highway and your issue sounds very similar to what my problem was. Only difference is that mine was indeed the pump in the end, but jast as easily could have been a relay........

928 at last

Oh Yeah, and being new, I didn't have a jumper or spare relay in hand. That made it expensive.
(As the song says, "We dont get fooled again")

bernard farquart

Well, I was just at the car again, and I am sure it isn't the relay for the fuel pump, and I doubt it is the pump itself.

I did pull the relay, and jumper between 30 and 87 ( I made a toggle switched jumper, just because) I got no change, made sure there was power at 30, and there was.

I do, however get fuel at the fuel rail, because I was opening the nut at the front of the fuel rails, and they were pressurized after cranking.

I am still thinking I have bad fuel, but want to make sure it isnt the fuel *injection* relay that is the culprit, I didn't pull that one (XV I think, book's at the car, not here) because I had drained down the battery, so I am charging it up for a couple hours and figured I would ponder while it charged.

So I guess I am wondering if anyone knows

1) Is there a way to jumper the fuel injection relay, like the pump relay?

2) If I have pressure at the rail, does that mean the pump is OK, or could I still be looking at a failing pump even though it sprays fuel and then fuel runs out when I open the line after cranking?

I have a feeling I am going to end up screwing up my chin spoiler if I have to tow strap the old girl home, but that may be how the story ends tonight.

Mrmerlin

where is the tow hook?? your should be easy to use as it has no plug its just inside of the top right side of the grill on the right frame horn.
The tow hook is in the tool tray, dont make large side loadings on the hook keep the line straight if you can

bernard farquart

Oh yeah, THROUGH the grille, that would make more sense.

I think I saw the hook on the front end of either control arm mount.

I am actually hoping for a resolution that allows me to *drive* it back to the garage/hospital for further work.

WICruiser

I am not sure about the '84 but I know in my '85 I jumpered the three critical relays originally to get the engine to run.

86'928S MeteorGrey

There could be a number of things going on here. It's probably best to get it home. However, you can check connections at the injectors. If you have a meter, you can check for signal at the injectors. If you do have signal at the injectors, your theory on bad gas/clogged injectors might be correct. Sometimes simply unpluging and reconnecting the computer will solve ignition issues. Also the ignition switch itself has poped up as a culprit a few times as of late... If you got bad gas, pulling and cleaning the injectors will be on the short list... Good luck! Hope this has a happy ending...

Mrmerlin

the lower tow hooks are for lashing the car down the tow hook connection is through the right side
PU cover after removing the plastic PU round cover.
With a flashlight you can see the receptacle through the grill

danglerb

Green wire?

Rob Edwards