vdubr

Ok, dove into the car today. Voltage is good at the panel and the injectors. FI Relay is a little flaky but that is a new problem and not causing my no start. Opened the realy today because it was not clicking. (was before must have just quit) Close the realy by hand and I get the almost want to start putter that I've been getting. Open the relay and the car RUNS for a few seconds till it runs out of gas. Obviously this whole time I've not been short fuel but getting way too much fuel dumpped into the clynders. If I sit there and engage/disengage the relay by hand the car will idle. Hold the relay closed and the car dies. No question that my problem is that the car is waaaaaayyyyy too rich to run. What can cause this? What is the most likely cause? Could I have a problem with my AFM or is this likely a regulator/dampner issue? Keep in mind that this is an intermittant issue. This is the third time that I've had this problem. Both times the car has basically fixed itself. (last time I installed a fuel pump but obviously that was not the problem) By the way. When I put the fuel pump in the car started right up but missed and puored fuel smoke for 20-30 seconds. I chalked that up to bleeding the fuel system but looks now like somehting was reseting. Car ran for maybe 50-60 miles then quit like a car does when CPS fails. Just stopped no miss. (after the first time which was when I first installed the motor in the car after sitting for several years it fixed itself and ran for 4-5000 miles then quit on shutdown.... Just wouldn't start in a parking lot) Obviously this is probably not a cold start issue since the car IS cold.

Does anybody on the list in Colorado have a fuel pressure tester?

Lizard928

Wow that was hard to read!

First off we need info on the car, year, model, etc.

Bill Ball

What year is the car? If 85 or later, could be bad LH brain. Most likely in 87 or later. Also, check the vacuum lines to the FPR and dampners for fuel - these parts could have leaky diaphragms. There are other possibilkities (O2 sensor, MAF), but they are less likely from your symptoms.

If you are near Denver, there is a good group of owners in that area who would be able to help you.

vdubr

Sorry Guys. 82 us L-jet.

I'd be glad to head to Denver if there are ppl willing to help a guy out. They would have to loan it to me though as the car won't start.

Sorry anout jumping around so much. That's what's going on in my head after tearing into this thing 3 times now looking for the same ghost.

Landseer

I've had intermittent operation from fuel pump relay and injector relay. Including bad new relays.

Jumper them before driving (and un jumper when parking of course) to see if it helps.

In my experience, dirty hot lead little red wire and/or dirty grounds can steal enough power to screw up relays engaging.

vdubr

Relays are not the problem. I think I just lost FI Relay but I have jumpered both that and Fuel Pump. Problem is extremly rich mixture. So rich the car won't run.

Landseer

OK.

And you jumpered FI relay with a three-way wire, right?

Oxygen sensor is next on my list.

vdubr

Yes, I have also tested for voltage drop at the panel and the injectors. All seems to be well in power land I can hear the injectors fire with a stethascope. Spark is there. Car will idle for a few seconds if I remove (that's right I mean pull) the FI relay. Too much fuel.

Can't find where to add my sig by the way. Sorry

Which fuel line is the return? Front or rear? I want to make sure it's clear.

Landseer

It passes from the regulator into the AC cooler heat exchanger, then out towards tank. All against firewall.

Put a timing light on it. Might have slipped TB cogs.

Also, pull cap and check for corrosion.

T2 sensor and time/temp sensor can both cause problems.

Sounds like there is plenty of fuel, just no ignition, at least not at the right time. Unlikely to have jammed return line and a resulting overfuel condition.

vdubr

Cap/rotor good. Timing good. Just did TB 5000 miles ago. Belt has been re-tensioned and is doing well. Car runs like a top when this isn't going on. Timing is perfect. Remember this is an intermittant issue.

All data I'm finding on testing 02 sensor is after removing. Can it be tested in the car?

The temp sensor can be tested as well I'm sure. Can those really cause a no-start? If so I will get searching on test procedures for those as well.

Page 24-21 in the Factory manual does list Temp and Temp 2 as possible causes but not O2 Sensor or fuel pressure too high. Also lists Intake air sensor??? AFM???

vdubr

Ok..... Landseer and all. Thanks so much for your advice. Looks like the Time Temp Switch is bad. Getting some prett funkt ready from each pin to ground. Should be 0 ohms since the car is cold an more then likely has cooled below 86 by now since it was barely 80 today in Colorado Springs. Either way... Temp sensor was open as it should be when cold. (will test further as soon as I can get the car runnung) Either way, When I pulled Temp time connector the contacts were really dirty. I cleaned them and tested the sensor and plugged it back in and poof. I have a running car. Sensor still tests bad but the car started right up. What effect will that sensor giving funky readings have on the car? ie loss of power? I'm ordering one today. I've hear tons of ppl talk about those sensors but never imagined that they could cause a no start. You guys are great. Where should I source my T2?

Thanks Again, Now if I can just find where to add a signature I'll be in business.

By the way, Can that time temp switch cause my car to just die on the road? Cause that's what happened last time it quit. Was about the distance it usually take the car to get up to temp.