IDLE CONTRL VALVE-CHEAP BOSCH
10-10-2009, 04:43 AM
#91
Shameful Thread Killer
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Ok, that actually tells me a lot. The S3 model drives the shutter in both directions, based on voltage picked to a pin. The S4 model is normally closed(mech), and requires a voltage to drive it open. The opening is based on the ramp voltage driven to the motor.
10-10-2009, 05:01 AM
#92
Nordschleife Master
I just ordered one for the S4 for a friend up in Canada. When it shows up I'll take pictures etc.
I notice it said 2yr warranty, didn't someone say it was lifetime?
I notice it said 2yr warranty, didn't someone say it was lifetime?
10-10-2009, 05:48 AM
#93
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Dirty failure mode seems to be that the spring doesnt push closed the valve quickly enough - exhibited as slow return to correct idle speed from a high idle speed. Test this by idling in 3rd gear (in a 5sp) -about 35mph - (tranny dependant) then clutch in and see how long the idle takes to return to normal.
10-14-2009, 06:19 PM
#94
Nordschleife Master
Part arrived today, Bosch 0 280 140 515, Made in Germany. Swry, too lazy to take a pict, its the factory part as far as I can tell, black Bosch label etc.
10-14-2009, 06:46 PM
#95
Three Wheelin'
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...dName=Duralast
Interesting Knock sensors too:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...dName=Duralast
10-14-2009, 07:58 PM
#96
Nordschleife Master
If the question is, what are you getting when you buy an ISV from Autozone?
Hard to say for sure, but some have speculated.
Could be (in no particular order):
- Chinese manufactured part, sold to Wells, sold to Autozone. With Bosch label.
Most have said they come from Autozone with Bosch label, though Autozone website show none.
- Chinese manufactured part, sold to Wells, sold to Autozone. Without Bosch label.
- Bosch part, manufacture unknown or possible the same China source. Sold to Wells, sold to Autozone.
- PCNA stock, sold to Wells, sold to Autozone. Assumed Bosch part because PCNA wouldn't sell it otherwise.
Anyway you cut it, it's possible they all come from the same China mfg. source.
The biggest difference would be a true Bosch part will have Bosch quality (QC).
Hard to say for sure, but some have speculated.
Could be (in no particular order):
- Chinese manufactured part, sold to Wells, sold to Autozone. With Bosch label.
Most have said they come from Autozone with Bosch label, though Autozone website show none.
- Chinese manufactured part, sold to Wells, sold to Autozone. Without Bosch label.
- Bosch part, manufacture unknown or possible the same China source. Sold to Wells, sold to Autozone.
- PCNA stock, sold to Wells, sold to Autozone. Assumed Bosch part because PCNA wouldn't sell it otherwise.
Anyway you cut it, it's possible they all come from the same China mfg. source.
The biggest difference would be a true Bosch part will have Bosch quality (QC).
Its been well documented that the part from autozone is a Bosch part and not this conspiracy crap your spewing. Give it a rest please, do you believe EVERYTHING EVERYONE ON THE INTERNET TELLS YOU?
Do what normal logical people do, try it yourself, then you can comment. If you have no experience then stop making suggestions based on your case study of ZERO.
When you have an opinion based on practical experience please post away, until then please DO NOT!
When others here have first hand knowledge of the part in question, there is no need, nor is there any room for speculation by commentators with know first hand knowledge. If you dont know first hand, do us all a favor and cease to comment at all. It doesnt add anything to the discussion but confusion to those that dont know their earhole from the other hole. I posted about the part back 18 plus months ago to help people find an alternative, nothing more. The fact that some here like to comment on it without even investigating it and simply theorizing on how or why it is is incredibly annoying. Please, if your going to post something, OWN IT. Can you really own something like the above post? If the answer is NO, then dont post it.
10-14-2009, 08:58 PM
#97
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10-14-2009, 10:50 PM
#98
Nordschleife Master
The autozone here sells the Duralast kind. no Bosch
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...dName=Duralast
Interesting Knock sensors too:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...dName=Duralast
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...dName=Duralast
Interesting Knock sensors too:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...dName=Duralast
10-14-2009, 11:34 PM
#99
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I bought one also, it looked like a Bosch part, but why the wells bag?
I sent it back to them.
If I get it from Porsche, I know what the quality is, not so much with a look alike in a different box/bag, maybe it is the same, maybe it is not.
After dealing with as many autozone parts as i have, no way it is going on a car I repair.
10-15-2009, 12:45 AM
#100
Nordschleife Master
Do you find that odd?
I bought one also, it looked like a Bosch part, but why the wells bag?
I sent it back to them.
If I get it from Porsche, I know what the quality is, not so much with a look alike in a different box/bag, maybe it is the same, maybe it is not.
After dealing with as many autozone parts as i have, no way it is going on a car I repair.
I bought one also, it looked like a Bosch part, but why the wells bag?
I sent it back to them.
If I get it from Porsche, I know what the quality is, not so much with a look alike in a different box/bag, maybe it is the same, maybe it is not.
After dealing with as many autozone parts as i have, no way it is going on a car I repair.
Sheesh.. phone Wells and say "I'm confused - this is a Bosch part in a Wells bag" and see what they say. Horse's mouth and all.
A whole heap of supplier brands don't produce all their own gear. Wells, Beck Arnley, AC Delco, and more.. some like Beck don't produce *any* of their own stuff and just on-sell other brands under their own label.
I've bought a heap of Beck Arnley parts, including ignition amps ($15 - Bosch), complete clutch slave cylinders including rod, seals etc ($20 - ***), S4 front brake pads ($18 - Bendix), ABS relays ($9 - SHO), valve cover gaskets ($5 including oil plug seals too - can't remember which OEM, and too lazy to go look at the set I have left), heaps of fuel pump relays ($1ea. - still say "Made in W Germany" on them).
Yes, buying off Ebay is a crap-shoot as ebay is pretty much an outlet store for cheap garbage produced in countries who don't respect trademarks these days (which has its place, but no for new 928 parts for me thanks).
However, buying from a major national chain shouldn't invoke so much tinfoil-hat paranoia.
Anyway, threads like this are all good entertaining comedy; Carry on people
10-15-2009, 01:20 AM
#101
Nordschleife Master
What exactly do you think the odds are that a large, well-known US supply company that wholesales to major national retail outlets is selling fake Bosch parts and getting away with it?
Sheesh.. phone Wells and say "I'm confused - this is a Bosch part in a Wells bag" and see what they say. Horse's mouth and all.
A whole heap of supplier brands don't produce all their own gear. Wells, Beck Arnley, AC Delco, and more.. some like Beck don't produce *any* of their own stuff and just on-sell other brands under their own label.
I've bought a heap of Beck Arnley parts, including ignition amps ($15 - Bosch), complete clutch slave cylinders including rod, seals etc ($20 - ***), S4 front brake pads ($18 - Bendix), ABS relays ($9 - SHO), valve cover gaskets ($5 including oil plug seals too - can't remember which OEM, and too lazy to go look at the set I have left), heaps of fuel pump relays ($1ea. - still say "Made in W Germany" on them).
Yes, buying off Ebay is a crap-shoot as ebay is pretty much an outlet store for cheap garbage produced in countries who don't respect trademarks these days (which has its place, but no for new 928 parts for me thanks).
However, buying from a major national chain shouldn't invoke so much tinfoil-hat paranoia.
Anyway, threads like this are all good entertaining comedy; Carry on people
Sheesh.. phone Wells and say "I'm confused - this is a Bosch part in a Wells bag" and see what they say. Horse's mouth and all.
A whole heap of supplier brands don't produce all their own gear. Wells, Beck Arnley, AC Delco, and more.. some like Beck don't produce *any* of their own stuff and just on-sell other brands under their own label.
I've bought a heap of Beck Arnley parts, including ignition amps ($15 - Bosch), complete clutch slave cylinders including rod, seals etc ($20 - ***), S4 front brake pads ($18 - Bendix), ABS relays ($9 - SHO), valve cover gaskets ($5 including oil plug seals too - can't remember which OEM, and too lazy to go look at the set I have left), heaps of fuel pump relays ($1ea. - still say "Made in W Germany" on them).
Yes, buying off Ebay is a crap-shoot as ebay is pretty much an outlet store for cheap garbage produced in countries who don't respect trademarks these days (which has its place, but no for new 928 parts for me thanks).
However, buying from a major national chain shouldn't invoke so much tinfoil-hat paranoia.
Anyway, threads like this are all good entertaining comedy; Carry on people
i honestly dont know why this is even a debate, and please put the damn tin foil caps away!
10-15-2009, 10:55 AM
#102
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All I know is what I have learned from MANY years of working on cars every day, what do you think the odds are that I may have a clue as to the quality of parts that come from Autozone?
EXACTLY what is it that you do for a living? Does it involve repairing cars?
The reason I ask that is so I will know if you have had any real amount of exposure to the quality level of autozone parts.
How many cars do you repair a week?
autozone is the only place I have ever seen a "Bosch" part not come in a Bosch box from a cut rate parts house, why do some of the Bosch parts they sell come in a Bosch box?
I have repaired so many cars by replacing new or almost new parts from autozone it is not funny, I see it every week, week after week, month after month, year after year.
No tin foil hats, just a guy that works on cars every day telling you what he sees.
In this area, I know of no shop that has been in place for more than a year that will install autozone parts, why do you think that is?
If we can get the same parts cheaper, that directly impacts our profit margin, list price does not change.
Maybe it is because myself and other shop owners have been there.
About the only thing I will buy from autozone is shop towels and cleaners, no hard parts of any kind.
You guys feel free to use these parts, but do not tell me that there is not a problem with the quality of the parts autozone sells overall, I know better.
Like I said, the ISV may indeed be the same as a factory Porsche part, but I have my doubts and am not going to use one because I try to do the best job with the best parts I can.
Do not even get me started on OEM vs OE, we just went through this with one of our 928 parts guys, he is no longer selling this OEM part because of quality issues.
Maybe this person who sells 928 parts is blind also.
You guys use what ever you want, I will do the same.
EXACTLY what is it that you do for a living? Does it involve repairing cars?
The reason I ask that is so I will know if you have had any real amount of exposure to the quality level of autozone parts.
How many cars do you repair a week?
autozone is the only place I have ever seen a "Bosch" part not come in a Bosch box from a cut rate parts house, why do some of the Bosch parts they sell come in a Bosch box?
I have repaired so many cars by replacing new or almost new parts from autozone it is not funny, I see it every week, week after week, month after month, year after year.
No tin foil hats, just a guy that works on cars every day telling you what he sees.
In this area, I know of no shop that has been in place for more than a year that will install autozone parts, why do you think that is?
If we can get the same parts cheaper, that directly impacts our profit margin, list price does not change.
Maybe it is because myself and other shop owners have been there.
About the only thing I will buy from autozone is shop towels and cleaners, no hard parts of any kind.
You guys feel free to use these parts, but do not tell me that there is not a problem with the quality of the parts autozone sells overall, I know better.
Like I said, the ISV may indeed be the same as a factory Porsche part, but I have my doubts and am not going to use one because I try to do the best job with the best parts I can.
Do not even get me started on OEM vs OE, we just went through this with one of our 928 parts guys, he is no longer selling this OEM part because of quality issues.
Maybe this person who sells 928 parts is blind also.
You guys use what ever you want, I will do the same.
What exactly do you think the odds are that a large, well-known US supply company that wholesales to major national retail outlets is selling fake Bosch parts and getting away with it?
Sheesh.. phone Wells and say "I'm confused - this is a Bosch part in a Wells bag" and see what they say. Horse's mouth and all.
A whole heap of supplier brands don't produce all their own gear. Wells, Beck Arnley, AC Delco, and more.. some like Beck don't produce *any* of their own stuff and just on-sell other brands under their own label.
I've bought a heap of Beck Arnley parts, including ignition amps ($15 - Bosch), complete clutch slave cylinders including rod, seals etc ($20 - ***), S4 front brake pads ($18 - Bendix), ABS relays ($9 - SHO), valve cover gaskets ($5 including oil plug seals too - can't remember which OEM, and too lazy to go look at the set I have left), heaps of fuel pump relays ($1ea. - still say "Made in W Germany" on them).
Yes, buying off Ebay is a crap-shoot as ebay is pretty much an outlet store for cheap garbage produced in countries who don't respect trademarks these days (which has its place, but no for new 928 parts for me thanks).
However, buying from a major national chain shouldn't invoke so much tinfoil-hat paranoia.
Anyway, threads like this are all good entertaining comedy; Carry on people
Sheesh.. phone Wells and say "I'm confused - this is a Bosch part in a Wells bag" and see what they say. Horse's mouth and all.
A whole heap of supplier brands don't produce all their own gear. Wells, Beck Arnley, AC Delco, and more.. some like Beck don't produce *any* of their own stuff and just on-sell other brands under their own label.
I've bought a heap of Beck Arnley parts, including ignition amps ($15 - Bosch), complete clutch slave cylinders including rod, seals etc ($20 - ***), S4 front brake pads ($18 - Bendix), ABS relays ($9 - SHO), valve cover gaskets ($5 including oil plug seals too - can't remember which OEM, and too lazy to go look at the set I have left), heaps of fuel pump relays ($1ea. - still say "Made in W Germany" on them).
Yes, buying off Ebay is a crap-shoot as ebay is pretty much an outlet store for cheap garbage produced in countries who don't respect trademarks these days (which has its place, but no for new 928 parts for me thanks).
However, buying from a major national chain shouldn't invoke so much tinfoil-hat paranoia.
Anyway, threads like this are all good entertaining comedy; Carry on people
10-15-2009, 03:46 PM
#103
Nordschleife Master
They come in a wells bag instead of a Bosch box for warranty issues, they have a 2 yr Wells warranty, and nothing from Bosch. I would LOVE for this part to not be a REAL 100% same as Porsche sells to you in a different box for $400 part because Autozone would end up paying for my parts and repairs for the rest of my life. Sounds like win/win to me. 
As a shop these parts have no benefit to you, its the customer paying for the parts, and you taking the risk.
As a DIYer these parts are irresistible, and the risk more than compensated for in the price.
It may be annoying to you and your customers that your parts sources are more expensive for the same part, but that's not exactly a secret is it? The consumer channel is totally price driven, and the pro shop channel is totally convenience driven, because that is what works for each of us.
***********************
Duralast OTOH is often crap, cheapest sourced only remotely looks like a factory part type stuff. I currently have a Duralast breather/pvc hose on my wifes car since the Lincoln dealer doesn't stock that part, but once it came in it looks nothing like it especially in terms of quality, but the car was running for the two weeks I waited for the factory part.
As a shop these parts have no benefit to you, its the customer paying for the parts, and you taking the risk.
As a DIYer these parts are irresistible, and the risk more than compensated for in the price.
It may be annoying to you and your customers that your parts sources are more expensive for the same part, but that's not exactly a secret is it? The consumer channel is totally price driven, and the pro shop channel is totally convenience driven, because that is what works for each of us.
***********************
Duralast OTOH is often crap, cheapest sourced only remotely looks like a factory part type stuff. I currently have a Duralast breather/pvc hose on my wifes car since the Lincoln dealer doesn't stock that part, but once it came in it looks nothing like it especially in terms of quality, but the car was running for the two weeks I waited for the factory part.
10-16-2009, 12:21 AM
#104
Nordschleife Master
All I know is what I have learned from MANY years of working on cars every day, what do you think the odds are that I may have a clue as to the quality of parts that come from Autozone?
EXACTLY what is it that you do for a living? Does it involve repairing cars?
The reason I ask that is so I will know if you have had any real amount of exposure to the quality level of autozone parts.
How many cars do you repair a week?
autozone is the only place I have ever seen a "Bosch" part not come in a Bosch box from a cut rate parts house, why do some of the Bosch parts they sell come in a Bosch box?
I have repaired so many cars by replacing new or almost new parts from autozone it is not funny, I see it every week, week after week, month after month, year after year.
No tin foil hats, just a guy that works on cars every day telling you what he sees.
In this area, I know of no shop that has been in place for more than a year that will install autozone parts, why do you think that is?
If we can get the same parts cheaper, that directly impacts our profit margin, list price does not change.
Maybe it is because myself and other shop owners have been there.
About the only thing I will buy from autozone is shop towels and cleaners, no hard parts of any kind.
You guys feel free to use these parts, but do not tell me that there is not a problem with the quality of the parts autozone sells overall, I know better.
Like I said, the ISV may indeed be the same as a factory Porsche part, but I have my doubts and am not going to use one because I try to do the best job with the best parts I can.
Do not even get me started on OEM vs OE, we just went through this with one of our 928 parts guys, he is no longer selling this OEM part because of quality issues.
Maybe this person who sells 928 parts is blind also.
You guys use what ever you want, I will do the same.
EXACTLY what is it that you do for a living? Does it involve repairing cars?
The reason I ask that is so I will know if you have had any real amount of exposure to the quality level of autozone parts.
How many cars do you repair a week?
autozone is the only place I have ever seen a "Bosch" part not come in a Bosch box from a cut rate parts house, why do some of the Bosch parts they sell come in a Bosch box?
I have repaired so many cars by replacing new or almost new parts from autozone it is not funny, I see it every week, week after week, month after month, year after year.
No tin foil hats, just a guy that works on cars every day telling you what he sees.
In this area, I know of no shop that has been in place for more than a year that will install autozone parts, why do you think that is?
If we can get the same parts cheaper, that directly impacts our profit margin, list price does not change.
Maybe it is because myself and other shop owners have been there.
About the only thing I will buy from autozone is shop towels and cleaners, no hard parts of any kind.
You guys feel free to use these parts, but do not tell me that there is not a problem with the quality of the parts autozone sells overall, I know better.
Like I said, the ISV may indeed be the same as a factory Porsche part, but I have my doubts and am not going to use one because I try to do the best job with the best parts I can.
Do not even get me started on OEM vs OE, we just went through this with one of our 928 parts guys, he is no longer selling this OEM part because of quality issues.
Maybe this person who sells 928 parts is blind also.
You guys use what ever you want, I will do the same.
They come in a wells bag instead of a Bosch box for warranty issues, they have a 2 yr Wells warranty, and nothing from Bosch. I would LOVE for this part to not be a REAL 100% same as Porsche sells to you in a different box for $400 part because Autozone would end up paying for my parts and repairs for the rest of my life. Sounds like win/win to me.
As a shop these parts have no benefit to you, its the customer paying for the parts, and you taking the risk.
As a DIYer these parts are irresistible, and the risk more than compensated for in the price.
It may be annoying to you and your customers that your parts sources are more expensive for the same part, but that's not exactly a secret is it? The consumer channel is totally price driven, and the pro shop channel is totally convenience driven, because that is what works for each of us.
***********************
Duralast OTOH is often crap, cheapest sourced only remotely looks like a factory part type stuff. I currently have a Duralast breather/pvc hose on my wifes car since the Lincoln dealer doesn't stock that part, but once it came in it looks nothing like it especially in terms of quality, but the car was running for the two weeks I waited for the factory part.
As a shop these parts have no benefit to you, its the customer paying for the parts, and you taking the risk.
As a DIYer these parts are irresistible, and the risk more than compensated for in the price.
It may be annoying to you and your customers that your parts sources are more expensive for the same part, but that's not exactly a secret is it? The consumer channel is totally price driven, and the pro shop channel is totally convenience driven, because that is what works for each of us.
***********************
Duralast OTOH is often crap, cheapest sourced only remotely looks like a factory part type stuff. I currently have a Duralast breather/pvc hose on my wifes car since the Lincoln dealer doesn't stock that part, but once it came in it looks nothing like it especially in terms of quality, but the car was running for the two weeks I waited for the factory part.
Greg, can you please post on what the invoice was of the last time you had a customer come in, and an ISV was replaced. Can you give us all an idea for comparison sake what the cost was for you to replace this part with your ISV that came in a box?
Im just curious to know what the invoice looked like the last time you did this repair?
Because I think most here are DIY'ers like myself, I think when i look at it i see a few hours of my time that because of this hobby i value at $0, and a $150 part. I imagine your invoice would include an intake refresh, knock sensors and so on and so forth. I imagine the last time you replaced an ISV, it appeared on an invoice that totaled $1000 to $1500? So im curious if you could comment then you can see that there really is no comparison between your way of doing it and some of ours. THERE IS A PLACE FOR BOTH mind you, but not me.
10-16-2009, 10:48 AM
#105
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I agree, your way is cheaper, in every way, Ryan.
What I mean by that is you are just going to replace as little as needed, if you have to redo it in a month it is no big deal.
You are just going to replace one part if possible, no way to compare the two.
If I have to do it again the first thing is the tow bill I have to eat, so lets take at least a couple of hundred right off my profit, then I lose how ever long it takes me to repair what is not working and I have to pay for the part, plus what ever I have lost by not working on another car, by the time it is done, I have at best, not made a dime on the first repair.
And no, I have no intentions of posting anything that is between a customer and myself for you.
My work is not cheap, but to give you a idea, if some one called and wanted a "Quote" (which I do not do, AT ALL) on a intake refresh or a IAC on a S4 or later I would tell them it would be around 2500 give or take, I will replace every part under the intake including the bearings that I see FIT to replace, or I will not do it.
I always try to give a higher number than the job ends up being, folks do not get near as mad when they have been told 2500 and it is less.
I try to make a mark up of 15% on parts, but I do not sell them for any more than what any one can go get the same part at the dealer than they can.
My labor rate 80 per hour is a little above the norm for this area for folks that work on chevys and fords.
We have had this talk via PM, and on this thread.
You insist it is the exact same part, I said I have my doubts from years of working on cars.
I treat my own car with the same care as I would any one else car I work on.
I think you buy cars and repair them as cheap as possible to maybe sell them at a profit, I do not sell cars, just repair them.
We just do not agree on methods of repairing cars, simple as that.
I will ask you this, would you rather buy a car I had been maintaining or one that you had?
What I mean by that is you are just going to replace as little as needed, if you have to redo it in a month it is no big deal.
You are just going to replace one part if possible, no way to compare the two.
If I have to do it again the first thing is the tow bill I have to eat, so lets take at least a couple of hundred right off my profit, then I lose how ever long it takes me to repair what is not working and I have to pay for the part, plus what ever I have lost by not working on another car, by the time it is done, I have at best, not made a dime on the first repair.
And no, I have no intentions of posting anything that is between a customer and myself for you.
My work is not cheap, but to give you a idea, if some one called and wanted a "Quote" (which I do not do, AT ALL) on a intake refresh or a IAC on a S4 or later I would tell them it would be around 2500 give or take, I will replace every part under the intake including the bearings that I see FIT to replace, or I will not do it.
I always try to give a higher number than the job ends up being, folks do not get near as mad when they have been told 2500 and it is less.
I try to make a mark up of 15% on parts, but I do not sell them for any more than what any one can go get the same part at the dealer than they can.
My labor rate 80 per hour is a little above the norm for this area for folks that work on chevys and fords.
We have had this talk via PM, and on this thread.
You insist it is the exact same part, I said I have my doubts from years of working on cars.
I treat my own car with the same care as I would any one else car I work on.
I think you buy cars and repair them as cheap as possible to maybe sell them at a profit, I do not sell cars, just repair them.
We just do not agree on methods of repairing cars, simple as that.
I will ask you this, would you rather buy a car I had been maintaining or one that you had?
To Mike's and my point.....
Greg, can you please post on what the invoice was of the last time you had a customer come in, and an ISV was replaced. Can you give us all an idea for comparison sake what the cost was for you to replace this part with your ISV that came in a box?
Im just curious to know what the invoice looked like the last time you did this repair?
Because I think most here are DIY'ers like myself, I think when i look at it i see a few hours of my time that because of this hobby i value at $0, and a $150 part. I imagine your invoice would include an intake refresh, knock sensors and so on and so forth. I imagine the last time you replaced an ISV, it appeared on an invoice that totaled $1000 to $1500? So im curious if you could comment then you can see that there really is no comparison between your way of doing it and some of ours. THERE IS A PLACE FOR BOTH mind you, but not me.
Greg, can you please post on what the invoice was of the last time you had a customer come in, and an ISV was replaced. Can you give us all an idea for comparison sake what the cost was for you to replace this part with your ISV that came in a box?
Im just curious to know what the invoice looked like the last time you did this repair?
Because I think most here are DIY'ers like myself, I think when i look at it i see a few hours of my time that because of this hobby i value at $0, and a $150 part. I imagine your invoice would include an intake refresh, knock sensors and so on and so forth. I imagine the last time you replaced an ISV, it appeared on an invoice that totaled $1000 to $1500? So im curious if you could comment then you can see that there really is no comparison between your way of doing it and some of ours. THERE IS A PLACE FOR BOTH mind you, but not me.