5 Liter w/ Turbo Build
08-01-2009, 05:27 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego / Las Vegas
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the wiring and harness and everything is basically completely different.
The S3 block does not have the holes and such for the knock sensors, I can't even speculate that the S4 intake will fit on it.
Your S3 harness will not use the S4 computers, and even if you get the S4 harness I think you are going ot have problems with that and your set up.
If you want the ability to grow in technology without mixing and matching OEM stuff, you need to go stand alone. The price would barely be more than the sharktuner and other set of computers, plus you can sell your wiring harness and stuff you have.
to me, it would seem the S3 intake would be the simpler way to go without anything computer controlled to go with it. staying simpler would seem better in the end for you, otherwise I think you bought the wrong block to mix and match it back together
The S3 block does not have the holes and such for the knock sensors, I can't even speculate that the S4 intake will fit on it.
Your S3 harness will not use the S4 computers, and even if you get the S4 harness I think you are going ot have problems with that and your set up.
If you want the ability to grow in technology without mixing and matching OEM stuff, you need to go stand alone. The price would barely be more than the sharktuner and other set of computers, plus you can sell your wiring harness and stuff you have.
to me, it would seem the S3 intake would be the simpler way to go without anything computer controlled to go with it. staying simpler would seem better in the end for you, otherwise I think you bought the wrong block to mix and match it back together
08-01-2009, 05:39 PM
#19
In Your Face, Ace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
What is the difference between a cam cover for an 85-86 and a cam cover for an S4? I see that they have different part #'s. Will the swap from drivers side to pass. side or are they different in that aspect as well?
My engine came without these parts so that's why I'm asking.
Thanks
My engine came without these parts so that's why I'm asking.
Thanks
Just boxed them today for the move..
08-01-2009, 06:16 PM
#20
Man of many SIGs
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'll PM you.
Zoltan, you can use an S4 intake on an 85-86 block. Abby did it on his engine build.
The junk yard where I got the engine cut the injector harness right at the back of the engine. The "engine wiring harness" they sold me was something else. I think it is what goes between the computers and the engine harness. I'm not sure.
Zoltan, you can use an S4 intake on an 85-86 block. Abby did it on his engine build.
The junk yard where I got the engine cut the injector harness right at the back of the engine. The "engine wiring harness" they sold me was something else. I think it is what goes between the computers and the engine harness. I'm not sure.
08-01-2009, 07:57 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego / Las Vegas
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Colin,
Thats what I was eluding to, sell what you have and buy a standalone and eleminate headache and (what I believe) cost. I definantly think for this set up with a few mix-and-match parts (and I am saying there is nothing wrong with that, im all about using what you got and doing it with the budget you have!!) the standalone is the way to go.
I have experience with the haltech, microtek, Rtek, and SDS. I have found all but 1 very easy to install, very easy to program and makes life under the hood SO MUCH easier to work with, plus the weight you save is great as you get rid of everything else under the hood that isn't needed anymore.
For a 'project' car they are awesome!
Fabio,
That sucks, so now the harness you even got is not even what you thought? That is also nice to know that the S4 intake works, alhough what is done with the flappy? not needed to work because of boost now? anyway keep us updated, I love the 'budget' builds, i wish you were closer
Thats what I was eluding to, sell what you have and buy a standalone and eleminate headache and (what I believe) cost. I definantly think for this set up with a few mix-and-match parts (and I am saying there is nothing wrong with that, im all about using what you got and doing it with the budget you have!!) the standalone is the way to go.
I have experience with the haltech, microtek, Rtek, and SDS. I have found all but 1 very easy to install, very easy to program and makes life under the hood SO MUCH easier to work with, plus the weight you save is great as you get rid of everything else under the hood that isn't needed anymore.
For a 'project' car they are awesome!
Fabio,
That sucks, so now the harness you even got is not even what you thought? That is also nice to know that the S4 intake works, alhough what is done with the flappy? not needed to work because of boost now? anyway keep us updated, I love the 'budget' builds, i wish you were closer
08-01-2009, 09:11 PM
#22
In Your Face, Ace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'll PM you.
Zoltan, you can use an S4 intake on an 85-86 block. Abby did it on his engine build.
The junk yard where I got the engine cut the injector harness right at the back of the engine. The "engine wiring harness" they sold me was something else. I think it is what goes between the computers and the engine harness. I'm not sure.
Zoltan, you can use an S4 intake on an 85-86 block. Abby did it on his engine build.
The junk yard where I got the engine cut the injector harness right at the back of the engine. The "engine wiring harness" they sold me was something else. I think it is what goes between the computers and the engine harness. I'm not sure.
I sent you a pm. I have every external part for another 85-86 motor.
08-01-2009, 09:25 PM
#23
Man of many SIGs
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Fabio,
That sucks, so now the harness you even got is not even what you thought? That is also nice to know that the S4 intake works, alhough what is done with the flappy? not needed to work because of boost now? anyway keep us updated, I love the 'budget' builds, i wish you were closer
That sucks, so now the harness you even got is not even what you thought? That is also nice to know that the S4 intake works, alhough what is done with the flappy? not needed to work because of boost now? anyway keep us updated, I love the 'budget' builds, i wish you were closer
I just pulled one of the heads off of the engine. It appears that I have another set back already. It seems that this engine came from a timing belt failure car.
I wanted to see what I had in the engine before going any further. The engine oil smelled burnt. Look at what I found when I pulled the head off. Two of the valves were actually broken and laying in the cyl.
08-01-2009, 10:11 PM
#24
In Your Face, Ace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Dude, you know I have a set of those too. Break that thing down, moldex the crank and determine if the bores are good enough to be honed and used. I'd get that thing torn down completely and start from the bottom to determine what you have before purchasing anything else. If you have a good block and crank, I have everything else for the motor minus two pistons. And you aren't using 928 pistons/rods anyway, so no biggie.
08-02-2009, 12:52 AM
#25
Man of many SIGs
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Dude, you know I have a set of those too. Break that thing down, moldex the crank and determine if the bores are good enough to be honed and used. I'd get that thing torn down completely and start from the bottom to determine what you have before purchasing anything else. If you have a good block and crank, I have everything else for the motor minus two pistons. And you aren't using 928 pistons/rods anyway, so no biggie.
When you say Moldex the crank, do you mean buy a stroker crank? Or did you mean index the crank? I do plan on tearing it down all the way. I was planning to anyway but now it's a must.
08-02-2009, 07:25 PM
#26
In Your Face, Ace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hi Abby, I see that you called. I was inside a friends house having dinner. I'll try to give you a call tomorrow.
When you say Moldex the crank, do you mean buy a stroker crank? Or did you mean index the crank? I do plan on tearing it down all the way. I was planning to anyway but now it's a must.
When you say Moldex the crank, do you mean buy a stroker crank? Or did you mean index the crank? I do plan on tearing it down all the way. I was planning to anyway but now it's a must.
08-03-2009, 12:12 AM
#28
Man of many SIGs
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
OK. I thought thats what you meant. BTW, sorry I didn't call today. I was really busy with wedding stuff. I'll try to call tomorrow.
One more carnage pic.
08-03-2009, 03:54 PM
#29
Man of many SIGs
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
For Sc application there simply isn't perfect 928 engine. Not from factory anyway. One needs to select parts from 4 or 5 different engines to make best version possible using factory parts. Early '87 squirter block, '87-88 January S4 pistons preferably modified to have oil drain holes in skirts and lower compression tops, modified early 951 rods, '91-95 heads, GT style intake, crank scraper etc. All these parts together will result much better engine than any single stock engine can ever be.
Changes on S4 and GT pistons are interesting. I think there are several different piston configurations:
#1 Thick top, large compression area, weak skirt, no drain holes
#2 Thick top, large compression area, strong skirt, drain holes
#3 Thin top, large compression area, strong skirt, drain holes
#4 Thin top, small compression area, strong skirt, drain holes
Drain holes is not same thing as problematic not drilled all the way through oil ring drain hole in GTS pistons. These S4 drain holes refer to holes low down on skirts which allow excess oil to drain from plateau below wrist pin end.
Difference between thick and thin top thickness is about 1mm. Other 1mm comes from fact that bottom of thick top is 1mm further down from imaginary top line drawn above piston on its highest point. So thin top versions have two separate disadvantages on their tops which both separately are enough to make them less suitable for SC engine. Thick top is much better for modification and it allows clearly larger compression area on top before material becomes too thin. Difference is something like 8.2-8.3:1 CR for thick and 8.7-8.8:1 for thin when same thickness of material is left to piston top.
Strong skirt is obviously better skirt. But I think low compression is much more important for SC engines and having strong skirt. No oil drain holes is not important at all as they can be added to all versions which do not have them. Squirter blocks are more trouble than good on all NA engines so its better to save those blocks to SC builds. Especially those which have thick cylinder walls.
There are at least two different forged rod types. One is weaker than another. Stronger was mainly used in early 951 engines. Weaker was used in both later 951 and some 928. Best option is probably aftermarket set made to 928 specs. They are not that expensive, are easy to find and most importantly they are new parts which are probably much stronger than any Porsche version ever available.
'91-95 heads have extra cooling passages between exhaust ports. They are slightly better than earlier long bolt heads. Port matching to larger GT intake is yet another thing which isn't directly related to short vs long head bolt change.
#1 Thick top, large compression area, weak skirt, no drain holes
#2 Thick top, large compression area, strong skirt, drain holes
#3 Thin top, large compression area, strong skirt, drain holes
#4 Thin top, small compression area, strong skirt, drain holes
Drain holes is not same thing as problematic not drilled all the way through oil ring drain hole in GTS pistons. These S4 drain holes refer to holes low down on skirts which allow excess oil to drain from plateau below wrist pin end.
Difference between thick and thin top thickness is about 1mm. Other 1mm comes from fact that bottom of thick top is 1mm further down from imaginary top line drawn above piston on its highest point. So thin top versions have two separate disadvantages on their tops which both separately are enough to make them less suitable for SC engine. Thick top is much better for modification and it allows clearly larger compression area on top before material becomes too thin. Difference is something like 8.2-8.3:1 CR for thick and 8.7-8.8:1 for thin when same thickness of material is left to piston top.
Strong skirt is obviously better skirt. But I think low compression is much more important for SC engines and having strong skirt. No oil drain holes is not important at all as they can be added to all versions which do not have them. Squirter blocks are more trouble than good on all NA engines so its better to save those blocks to SC builds. Especially those which have thick cylinder walls.
There are at least two different forged rod types. One is weaker than another. Stronger was mainly used in early 951 engines. Weaker was used in both later 951 and some 928. Best option is probably aftermarket set made to 928 specs. They are not that expensive, are easy to find and most importantly they are new parts which are probably much stronger than any Porsche version ever available.
'91-95 heads have extra cooling passages between exhaust ports. They are slightly better than earlier long bolt heads. Port matching to larger GT intake is yet another thing which isn't directly related to short vs long head bolt change.
I would also like some info regarding the cooling mod (GTS style). I would like to do this to my 86 heads if possible.
What do you mean "weaker" style forged rods? Is there a flaw inherent in these rods or is the later design just beefier?
Thanks
08-03-2009, 04:04 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
1983 944 rods are also forged (thru mid-84/pistons too)
Edit: Woops, not low compression pistons.
Edit: Woops, not low compression pistons.
Last edited by UncleMaz; 08-03-2009 at 05:10 PM.