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Cost of S4 engine rebuild?

 
Old 07-13-2009, 02:25 PM
  #61  
MJ928
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Originally Posted by mark anderson View Post
Just an FYI there is a great machine shop here in OC that is very cost effective. I first found out about them through Porsche Motorsports and since then they have bored many blocks and done plenty of heads for me.

Engine Supply
304 E Dyer St
Santa Ana Ca 92707
Mike 714-556-0310

Ausil bore $350
4 valve head $105 (guides extra)
That is a very solid deal. Thanks for posting. Michael
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:36 PM
  #62  
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I am curious for those that have done the guides. How much material tends to need to be lathed off of the outside of the guides. Or is this not required for our guides?
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Old 07-13-2009, 03:36 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by blown 87 View Post
So you don't know if they are the same part number or not.
I would have thought you would have checked to see if they were the same.
OH JESUS

COME ON! I posted the damn picture, you tell me if they are the same or not? I dont have anything to cross reference it with so it doesnt matter. I dug up the thread and the picture for you, now your still giving me **** about the part numbers and wether or not its ACTUALLY for a 928?

your kidding right?
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Old 07-13-2009, 03:55 PM
  #64  
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Ryan, I applaud your tenacity in trying to keep 928 ownership affordable. You make some strong arguements that I certainly identify with. Spending 10K on an engine going into a depreciating 4K car makes absolutely no sense to me. I nice GT or GTS yes, a run of the mill S4 daily driver no. I think you have struck a nerve with those that feel that spending more always guarantees a better job.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:50 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by FBIII View Post
Ryan, I applaud your tenacity in trying to keep 928 ownership affordable. You make some strong arguements that I certainly identify with. Spending 10K on an engine going into a depreciating 4K car makes absolutely no sense to me. I nice GT or GTS yes, a run of the mill S4 daily driver no. I think you have struck a nerve with those that feel that spending more always guarantees a better job.
Spending more does not guarantee a better job, no way.
Not knowing if the right parts are put on does not guarantee that either.

I can think of dozens of applications for the Bosch IAC's that look just like the one Ryan posted, and they are not the same.

There is no way to tell them apart with out looking at the part number.
Simple as that.

I can get Volvo Bosch IAC's cheap, real cheap, look just like the one posted, but it is not the right part.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:14 PM
  #66  
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After reading this thread and doing the math I think my plans for the possibility that I blow my engine will include parting out my S4 and buying something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/996-9...9%3A1|72%3A317
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:14 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by blown 87 View Post
Spending more does not guarantee a better job, no way.
Not knowing if the right parts are put on does not guarantee that either.

I can think of dozens of applications for the Bosch IAC's that look just like the one Ryan posted, and they are not the same.

There is no way to tell them apart with out looking at the part number.
Simple as that.

I can get Volvo Bosch IAC's cheap, real cheap, look just like the one posted, but it is not the right part.
then again, look at the picture i posted on your behalf

why on earth would i present this otherwise? Why dont you LOOK at what i posted so you can either make a point, or drop you insinuations about the parts i installed on that car last year. I dont know why you carry on with this, the answer is right there on page 4. Either its the same or it isnt, you tell me, there is no need to guess anymore at this point.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:34 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by RyanPerrella View Post
then again, look at the picture i posted on your behalf

why on earth would i present this otherwise? Why dont you LOOK at what i posted so you can either make a point, or drop you insinuations about the parts i installed on that car last year. I dont know why you carry on with this, the answer is right there on page 4. Either its the same or it isnt, you tell me, there is no need to guess anymore at this point.
I looked again at what you posted, it looks like any other Bosch IAC that could go on many, many other cars.
As far as why you posted a picture of some Bosh parts that could have went on hundreds of cars, I do not know why you posted it.

Ryan you have said you did not look at the part numbers, if you did not there is no way to tell if it is the right part or not.

Can you not understand that?

How about I go grab one from out of the spares room and post a picture of it, do you think you can tell me if it is the right part for a 928 or not?

It will look just like the one you posted?


I am telling you from 35 years of working on cars, the last 20 working on all brands of European cars, there is a difference in IAC's from Bosch that look the same.

Do you honestly think that a IAC from a 4 cylinder BMW will work on ever other car with a Bosch IAC on it?

Trust me, I have tried it, and that is why I go with part numbers.

I am glad yours worked for you, and you saved money, but you are missing a very simple concept.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:50 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by blown 87 View Post
I looked again at what you posted, it looks like any other Bosch IAC that could go on many, many other cars.
As far as why you posted a picture of some Bosh parts that could have went on hundreds of cars, I do not know why you posted it.

Ryan you have said you did not look at the part numbers, if you did not there is no way to tell if it is the right part or not.

Can you not understand that?

How about I go grab one from out of the spares room and post a picture of it, do you think you can tell me if it is the right part for a 928 or not?

It will look just like the one you posted?


I am telling you from 35 years of working on cars, the last 20 working on all brands of European cars, there is a difference in IAC's from Bosch that look the same.

Do you honestly think that a IAC from a 4 cylinder BMW will work on ever other car with a Bosch IAC on it?

Trust me, I have tried it, and that is why I go with part numbers.

I am glad yours worked for you, and you saved money, but you are missing a very simple concept.
THE PART NUMBER IS CLEARLY POSTED it looks like a 9 digit number

blow it up and make it out, its very simple, and yes i know most ISV's are the same shape and of similar size, but the number is very clearly shown in the shot.

I am hesitant to make it out because i dont have a program that can enlarge it where the numbers dont get blurry.

But if i had to guess, i would say the Bosch PN is 280 140 545

I am almost certain on the first 6, the last 3 is a crapshoot

So now please go pull your 928 Bosch ISV off the shelf and tell me what yours says, then we can stop this insinuation that i used a 4 cylinder bmw ISV, or some other generic bosch isv that looked similar on that car and it magically worked....... thank you
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:01 PM
  #70  
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I am not insinuating any thing, simply making a point that you can not tell with out part numbers.

You said look at the pictures, it is right, great yours worked.
BTW, all of the Bosch IAC's have 9 digit numbers, not just Porsche.

No where did I say you used a BMW part, get your facts right.
You show me where I have said anything like that or that you used to wrong parts?

What I said was two parts can look alike and not be alike, the only way to tell is by part number.

Your the one that started all this about how you built a S4 motor using all Porsche parts for 2200$, but when you posted what you used it was far from all Porsche parts.

I am done trying to make you understand a simple fact.

Originally Posted by RyanPerrella View Post
THE PART NUMBER IS CLEARLY POSTED it looks like a 9 digit number

blow it up and make it out, its very simple, and yes i know most ISV's are the same shape and of similar size, but the number is very clearly shown in the shot.

I am hesitant to make it out because i dont have a program that can enlarge it where the numbers dont get blurry.

But if i had to guess, i would say the Bosch PN is 280 140 545

I am almost certain on the first 6, the last 3 is a crapshoot

So now please go pull your 928 Bosch ISV off the shelf and tell me what yours says, then we can stop this insinuation that i used a 4 cylinder bmw ISV on the car and it magically worked....... thank you
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:01 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by blown 87 View Post
I am telling you from 35 years of working on cars, the last 20 working on all brands of European cars, there is a difference in IAC's from Bosch that look the same. Do you honestly think that a IAC from a 4 cylinder BMW will work on ever other car with a Bosch IAC on it?

This may be besides the point, but I think idle control actuator should work well across systems even if it is not the exact same part. The reason why I think (but do not know) this is that idle is controlled using a closed loop, which (within limits) automatically adjusts to the properties of the specific actuator.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:23 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by blown 87 View Post
I am not insinuating any thing, simply making a point that you can not tell with out part numbers.

You said look at the pictures, it is right, great yours worked.
BTW, all of the Bosch IAC's have 9 digit numbers, not just Porsche.

No where did I say you used a BMW part, get your facts right.
You show me where I have said anything like that or that you used to wrong parts?

What I said was two parts can look alike and not be alike, the only way to tell is by part number.

Your the one that started all this about how you built a S4 motor using all Porsche parts for 2200$, but when you posted what you used it was far from all Porsche parts.

I am done trying to make you understand a simple fact.
so what is the Bosch PN of the ISV that you have?

are you verifying that the one i have (or had) is the exact same as the one you have on your shelf?

Also as to true rebuild cost, I am planning on getting a GTS shortly, and i do have a budget for it.

It would be a stock rebuild although i may change the cams while im there, i would also change the lifters if i change cams but i would be resealing the entire thing, replacing the valves with the 39mm intakes and pulling the pistons to drill them, and replacing the rods with either the R2 rods or a higher end H beam rod.

I planned to spend no more then $7500 on the rebuild but can also see doing it for about $5,000 depending on what parts i use.

If you would like me to i can detail it out to the dollar, actually i may just do it anyway, its been awhile since i added it all up.

In short, it does not cost $15,000 for me to rebuild and GTS engine, let alone a GT or S4 engine, I know i have done it. Thats my only point which you dont seem to get, as if i made these numbers up.
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:01 PM
  #73  
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Don't you guys have cars to go work on?

You need more 928's to rebuild!
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:44 PM
  #74  
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Here's a question for Ryan and blown87 - If your daily driver 928 had major failure would you rebuild it or buy a used engine that was known to be in good shape?
Even if you planned to rebuild the one you took out at a later date for personal use or resale, would you rather just switch out a 'good' used one to get back on the road or would that be a bad investment for you?

And, if so, do you think it would be a bad investment for someone who isn't capable of doing the labor and would have to otherwise pay the price you estimate for the rebuild?
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:02 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by aggravation View Post
Here's a question for Ryan and blown87 - If your daily driver 928 had major failure would you rebuild it or buy a used engine that was known to be in good shape?
Even if you planned to rebuild the one you took out at a later date for personal use or resale, would you rather just switch out a 'good' used one to get back on the road or would that be a bad investment for you?

And, if so, do you think it would be a bad investment for someone who isn't capable of doing the labor and would have to otherwise pay the price you estimate for the rebuild?
Currently on the S4 that i have, if it failed, i would probably just part the car and part the good parts out of the engine.

On a GTS which i had some money into, i would try and fix the engine using the parts described before. If i ran into a blow up like Rob E. I would find some engine to start with as a core and use what i could from the expired engine. Wow there are so many variables here actually its tough to say i can think of 1000 differences to do one thing over the other.

The single biggest factor for me though is always the financial side. I do not get over my head on these cars. I will not spend money on a 928 if it does not add value to the car simple as that. If i determine that the cost of the rebuild does not match the value of the car i would have to find some other solution. However, ive said this before, but i am looking at 93 GTS's and it is a given, i dont care the mileage, wether its 30K or 100K i would shortly after purchase, pull the motor, address the shortcomings and reseal the entire thing and replace all questionable parts if not all parts that require servicing and updating and reinstall it into the car. I then take care of all issues in one go round and in the end save allot of money. And i do believe that does add value to these cars. But again, it makes no sense for me to try and take what i have now, being a DD run around 88 S4 with high miles and try and dump 12K into it fixing everything to try and take it to a standard that you could achieve with a nicer car to begin with.

Someone made me an offer on the car and said oh its going to cost $12,000 to do this and that and this and i replied simply, that this is never going to be a beauty queen. I see it for what it is, a 165mph car on a serious budget. You can fix thing, but you would be silly to try and turn what that car is into a show winner or something. You would just simply start with another car. But for those that dont have $20K to spend on an S4, but still love them, this is a great direction for you to go in.

and back to the original question again. When i bought my old GT, i picked it up at Devek. When i was there Susan informed me that she had a GT engine from a 90 that had just crashed for some amount of money. I had at the time decided that would be the best bet to just buy that engine and run the car with it. When i later found out the huge mileage difference i decided i would in fact restore the original engine which i did and i later sold the Devek engine once the original was replaced. So although the original engine sat for 18 months in parts or as one lump, i was still driving the car.

With a car that was special to me, i would always rebuild instead of bothering with trying to find a good used engine, because people do misrepresent what they are selling and this is the biggest reason i am so forward with EVERYTHING that is at fault with any car i have. Because i dont want someone coming back to me later wanting a credit because i lied about something. I dont do business that way and thats something ive learned from taking peoples word. Its why im also so adamant about point out that you can in fact rebuild these cars on a budget, i know cause i have. I wont even tell you what i had into the GT by the time i was done, but if you knew, many here would likely be shocked. I was just looking at the pics I took of the car prior to selling it and remembering what it looked like when i first bought it, It really was one huge transformation and was a great car!

Also to those that maybe scared by a rebuild and the learning curve. I dont claim to be any genius, but i do consider myself to be pretty sharp and if nothing more very logical in my decisions. But i had no prior experience with 928's or any Porsche prior to my purchase of the GT back in April 2006. Ive learned a bunch in that time with the 4 cars i own or have owned and each one has tought me different things but they are not that difficult. I do have a serious interest in engineering and always loved learning about how things work, so that has helped me, but if your of that same mindset then i cant see why nobody else couldnt do what ive done in the past.

However, there are those that dont know a screwdriver from a box end wrench, for those out there, i suggest buying something with a warranty and something newer. I am hesitant to sell cars or even suggest these cars to anyone that isnt handy with a wrench. There is only one person in my family and group of friends that i could ever suggest a 928 to and thats someone that also loves cars and understands them, but to most people, this is not the right car for them because if you dont know any better, you can really loose your *** on these things.
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