Notices
928 Forum 1978-1995
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: 928 Specialists

Turbo pistons from down under

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-08-2009, 01:04 PM
  #16  
ptuomov
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
 
ptuomov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,610
Received 82 Likes on 65 Posts
Default

My position is that if you are designing an NA engine ground up, maybe coatings are worth it, or maybe not. In this case, one has freedom to address the heat retention and cooling with cooling passages, materials, etc. However, if you are turbocharging an existing NA engine, one doesn't have those choices. In that situation, TBC on the piston top and combustion chamber make sense. When GM turboed Ecotec for Solstice (spell check please), they put a TBC on the piston top, I believe.

This is for the piston top TBC. The skirt coatings I am sure are used in pretty much all engines now. One difference between top and skirt coatings is that if the coating on the top comes off it'll be blown away thru the exhaust port and doesn't make it to the oil system, while skirt coating may. Still, the friction and wear reducing coatings on the skirt make such a difference that everyone seems to use them now.

One more thing to consider. If TBC coating flakes off and makes in the exhaust, it is probably not going to damage the turbine spinning 150k rpm. Why? This is because the gas, the particle, and the turbine blade all move at about the same speed when they touch inside the turbine.



Originally Posted by entropy_engineering
I'm sure their are many many circumstances involved, but I've always been a big fan of coating pistons for turbo engines for the reduced crown temperature. You have me wondering about long term longevity now. I just had a 500hp mitsubishi engine sustain pretty healthy damage because the moly skirt coating came off really quick (like 50 miles) and clogged the little oil filter so quick the bypass opened and the bearings got torn up. Not my car, didn't have an oil pressure guage. No oil light no bad noises (till it was too late). I changed the oil once already before it happened. Teardown inspection made it look like the pistons weren't blasted before the coating was applied and it didn't bond properly. I plan to have a "discussion" about it soon.
Old 07-08-2009, 05:49 PM
  #17  
danglerb
Nordschleife Master
 
danglerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Orange, Cal
Posts: 8,575
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

A variable is a variable. Everything that gets changed reduces the chance of a predictable result, or even a result that can be related to any specific thing. Seems like you are rolling a lot of dice at the same time.
Old 07-08-2009, 06:42 PM
  #18  
ptuomov
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
 
ptuomov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,610
Received 82 Likes on 65 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by danglerb
A variable is a variable. Everything that gets changed reduces the chance of a predictable result, or even a result that can be related to any specific thing. Seems like you are rolling a lot of dice at the same time.
This in reference to what? About me keeping the main interfaces and design parameters constant? Surely you must be joking if you mean that keeping the main interfaces and design parameters doesn't lead to a more predictable outcome.
Old 07-08-2009, 06:45 PM
  #19  
danglerb
Nordschleife Master
 
danglerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Orange, Cal
Posts: 8,575
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

No by variable I meant the things being changed, like coatings.
Old 07-13-2009, 10:40 PM
  #20  
ptuomov
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
 
ptuomov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,610
Received 82 Likes on 65 Posts
Default Rings

In case someone is interested, here are some ring options for 100mm bore. These are from NPR (Nippon Piston Rings). Apparently, the first application gives the ring set its name.

I don't know if the two options in the middle fit stock piston and run well on Alusil, possibly worth investigating. However, for Nikasil and the pistons of this thread, I am hoping that SWL03190-2 will work just fine. Que sera, sera...

I decided to go with wide rings, which really are much wider than in modern engines for two reasons. First, one less interface change to worry about in case this ring idea turns out to be not so hot. Second, wide rings help with cooling the piston in a turbo car, where the piston may get pretty hot. I am betting that the improved cooling of the piston more than offsets the increased heat due to friction from 1.5mm, 1.5mm, 3.0mm rings.

Name:  Rings100mm.jpg
Views: 148
Size:  122.7 KB

Last edited by ptuomov; 10-26-2009 at 01:26 AM.



Quick Reply: Turbo pistons from down under



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 07:59 PM.