90mm Throttle Body Work Up
06-06-2009, 04:57 PM
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Three Wheelin'
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90mm Throttle Body Work Up
Okay first let me say I know the purest will throw up a little...using a ricer TB.
I'm posting a step by step of how I installed my 90mm Q45 Throttle Body on my Euro Hybrid.
1st why? A larger TB may allow your engine to breath better giving more power. Again it may. Going from the US to Euro S TB gives a bump so why wouldn't another 10mm? 2nd, I wanted to switch to TPS for activating the nitrous. 3rd, just because I like to tinker, I can always go back.
With ported Euro S heads, bigger cams, ported CIS, MSD ignition and distro, headers, X-pipe, no cats and dual 2.5" exhaust, there's not much more I can do save stroking, bigger valves or cams that are too big for street use.
SUpplies neeeded:
90mm Q45 throttle bodies are $65-100 on ebay. Pretty cheap investment.
Tap set
Dremel with grinder
Hacksaw or cut off wheel
piece of gasket material
Basic rundown. Remove old TB. Take lower plenum off car, remove CIS distro. Place new TB over plenum and use a sharpie to mark the new hole size. Also mark new bolt holes. With the TB twisted just slightly you can get two stock holes to line up perfect. You'll need to hand make a gasket, again use the bottom of the TB for a template. Top of TB needs to be cut down about 3/8" as it's too tall. Dremel out the plenum, there's plenty of meat left. You don't even go as far as the oring on the tock TB. Then drill and tap 2 new holes. Mount new TB. Then attach throttle cable. Top plenum can be routed out as well, though not much. Pepboys sells a 3.5" coupling gasket with a metal band that will join them well. Again a very basic run down. There are other issues I will detail below, like vacuum lines and cuting off the Q45 cruise control parts.
Busy week at work starting tomorrow. I'll try to post up the detail pics and instructions as quick as I can. Here's the first, just a comparison of size between the stock TB and the Q45 TB.
I'm posting a step by step of how I installed my 90mm Q45 Throttle Body on my Euro Hybrid.
1st why? A larger TB may allow your engine to breath better giving more power. Again it may. Going from the US to Euro S TB gives a bump so why wouldn't another 10mm? 2nd, I wanted to switch to TPS for activating the nitrous. 3rd, just because I like to tinker, I can always go back.
With ported Euro S heads, bigger cams, ported CIS, MSD ignition and distro, headers, X-pipe, no cats and dual 2.5" exhaust, there's not much more I can do save stroking, bigger valves or cams that are too big for street use.
SUpplies neeeded:
90mm Q45 throttle bodies are $65-100 on ebay. Pretty cheap investment.
Tap set
Dremel with grinder
Hacksaw or cut off wheel
piece of gasket material
Basic rundown. Remove old TB. Take lower plenum off car, remove CIS distro. Place new TB over plenum and use a sharpie to mark the new hole size. Also mark new bolt holes. With the TB twisted just slightly you can get two stock holes to line up perfect. You'll need to hand make a gasket, again use the bottom of the TB for a template. Top of TB needs to be cut down about 3/8" as it's too tall. Dremel out the plenum, there's plenty of meat left. You don't even go as far as the oring on the tock TB. Then drill and tap 2 new holes. Mount new TB. Then attach throttle cable. Top plenum can be routed out as well, though not much. Pepboys sells a 3.5" coupling gasket with a metal band that will join them well. Again a very basic run down. There are other issues I will detail below, like vacuum lines and cuting off the Q45 cruise control parts.
Busy week at work starting tomorrow. I'll try to post up the detail pics and instructions as quick as I can. Here's the first, just a comparison of size between the stock TB and the Q45 TB.
06-09-2009, 05:47 PM
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Three Wheelin'
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Couple more pics.
After cutting off the cruise control module and support arm. Not there is a little space between the TB and the top plenum in stock form. Cutting the Q45 TB at the yellow line fits perfect with the TB and plenum just touching.
Next cutting the bottom gasket, making the lower plenum and going crazy with the grinder. Then tap for nitrous nozzle and put it all together.
One note. All vacuum leads on the Q45 TB are post throttle plate so you may need to tap into another sourse for some vacuum lines like the one going to the top of the WUR.
Also the idle adjustment screw is on the side and tough to get to with the spider legs in the way. HF has a ratching 90* screwdriver that works perfecr. THe idle adjust on the Q45 is not a bypass type, it just sets the lower stop on the throttle return.
After cutting off the cruise control module and support arm. Not there is a little space between the TB and the top plenum in stock form. Cutting the Q45 TB at the yellow line fits perfect with the TB and plenum just touching.
Next cutting the bottom gasket, making the lower plenum and going crazy with the grinder. Then tap for nitrous nozzle and put it all together.
One note. All vacuum leads on the Q45 TB are post throttle plate so you may need to tap into another sourse for some vacuum lines like the one going to the top of the WUR.
Also the idle adjustment screw is on the side and tough to get to with the spider legs in the way. HF has a ratching 90* screwdriver that works perfecr. THe idle adjust on the Q45 is not a bypass type, it just sets the lower stop on the throttle return.
06-09-2009, 06:08 PM
#3
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Great work. active diameter of the US throttle body is 2.4" 3.3" for the euro. (35% larger) this is 3.5" at the throttle plate?? should work great. very cool!
mk
mk
06-09-2009, 07:09 PM
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I've got G-teck data so should still show net gain in RWHP. WIth EUro S intakes so hard to find, this could be a nice mod for the US models. Even if I only get 5 hp more, that's about $12 per 1 HP. Good return on investment. I think it will net more like 10-15RWHP on my Hybrid. We shall see. Regardless it allows me to add TPS to my nitrous set up.
06-09-2009, 08:06 PM
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Ricer,
Great idea! This is the kind of inventiveness and creativity that makes for low dollar, high tech results that may surprise you. The flow increase over the stock USA TB is >2X! (4.52 sq. in. vs 9.61 sq. in.) based on the dias. stated in the previous post. This removes the largest single restriction to CFM airflow. It's also the furthest from the intake valve which increases it's potential for performance improvement. A modest increase in fuel pressure will help maintain the air/fuel ratio in the 13.5 to 14.5 to one range. Mods to the control pressure regulator can be fun.
Good Show! Please keep us posted on the results,
Ed Hart
Great idea! This is the kind of inventiveness and creativity that makes for low dollar, high tech results that may surprise you. The flow increase over the stock USA TB is >2X! (4.52 sq. in. vs 9.61 sq. in.) based on the dias. stated in the previous post. This removes the largest single restriction to CFM airflow. It's also the furthest from the intake valve which increases it's potential for performance improvement. A modest increase in fuel pressure will help maintain the air/fuel ratio in the 13.5 to 14.5 to one range. Mods to the control pressure regulator can be fun.
Good Show! Please keep us posted on the results,
Ed Hart
06-09-2009, 09:21 PM
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Ricer,
Great idea! This is the kind of inventiveness and creativity that makes for low dollar, high tech results that may surprise you. The flow increase over the stock USA TB is >2X! (4.52 sq. in. vs 9.61 sq. in.) based on the dias. stated in the previous post. This removes the largest single restriction to CFM airflow. It's also the furthest from the intake valve which increases it's potential for performance improvement. A modest increase in fuel pressure will help maintain the air/fuel ratio in the 13.5 to 14.5 to one range. Mods to the control pressure regulator can be fun.
Good Show! Please keep us posted on the results,
Ed Hart
Great idea! This is the kind of inventiveness and creativity that makes for low dollar, high tech results that may surprise you. The flow increase over the stock USA TB is >2X! (4.52 sq. in. vs 9.61 sq. in.) based on the dias. stated in the previous post. This removes the largest single restriction to CFM airflow. It's also the furthest from the intake valve which increases it's potential for performance improvement. A modest increase in fuel pressure will help maintain the air/fuel ratio in the 13.5 to 14.5 to one range. Mods to the control pressure regulator can be fun.
Good Show! Please keep us posted on the results,
Ed Hart
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06-10-2009, 02:06 AM
#8
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the interesting thing about the US Ljet set ups is that the AFM has a 4sq" square, but bell mouthed opening. when the intake is opened up as well as the plennum, there still a 15 or so HP gain. I havent quite figured that one out yet. 
the nice thing about this mod, is that it starts from the much less restricted CIS inlet and REALLY opens up the point of max restriction.
nice work. I would send the intake runners to extrude hone and get those things hogged out a bit too.
If I remember , the euro inlets were 1.6" while the US was something like 1.4"
the nice thing about this mod, is that it starts from the much less restricted CIS inlet and REALLY opens up the point of max restriction.
nice work. I would send the intake runners to extrude hone and get those things hogged out a bit too.
If I remember , the euro inlets were 1.6" while the US was something like 1.4"
06-10-2009, 11:09 AM
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Couple more pics.
The idel adjustment screw and stop arm will hit the base of the plenum, preventing the throttle arm from rotating. I cut the bottom extension of the arm off, about 4mm worth. Rotates fine, however now I need another way to set idle...
I fashioned a small metal bracket. One end anchored with the original idle set screw, the other with a clip and screw, lining up just inbetween the two screws in the pic. Still allows the arm to rotate and provides an adjustable stop for setting idle. Kinda McGuivered, I need a better solution still.
Also show the 3.5" coupler with metal band. 10mm nut allows tightening with a ratcheting wrench instead of messing with hose clamps. CHeap too, about $10 at Ricer Central. (Pep Boys)
Note the alignment of the TB, slightly off kilter. This allows 2 bolt holes to line up and the other two positioned over solid metal to tap more holes. LIning it up straight would expose about 1/2 of every hole, making taping 4 holes out of the question. I have a gasket in place underneath. Hoping to get a good seal with just the two bolts so tapping won't be needed and plenum can return to stock if needed.
Throttle cable needed to be shorted all the way to remove any slack. Just barely enough there to play with. May need to tighten just a tad more on the pedal end. FOr now I have drilled a small hole in the original ball end. Using the hole at the end of the throttle arm, I placed a cotter pin through to secure them together, old school style.
Vacuum lines... Note there are only 2 ports on front and both are above the butterfly when shut. You can run one to the distro, and one to the bottom of the WUR. You no longer need the line to the Deceleration valve. For the line going to the top of the WUR, which need lower plenum vacuum, I tapped a 3 way fitting into the oil vent line right above the plenum, as low and close as I could get it. On my set up the first line goes to a vacuum gage on my "Ricer" 3 gauge A piller set up as my MSD distro is not vacuum advanced.
Nitrous- going to get her running on this TB, then remove and tap for nozzles. Don't want to waste effort or mess things up. Nozzle are tiny Piranha's, part of one can be seen in pic below, the red and blue nuts on the supply lines. Plenty of room to mount now that there is no deceleration valve.
That's it for today, need to get back to work. BTW with a Nissan TB now in my car, does she need to start taking Anti-Rejection drugs?
The idel adjustment screw and stop arm will hit the base of the plenum, preventing the throttle arm from rotating. I cut the bottom extension of the arm off, about 4mm worth. Rotates fine, however now I need another way to set idle...
I fashioned a small metal bracket. One end anchored with the original idle set screw, the other with a clip and screw, lining up just inbetween the two screws in the pic. Still allows the arm to rotate and provides an adjustable stop for setting idle. Kinda McGuivered, I need a better solution still.
Also show the 3.5" coupler with metal band. 10mm nut allows tightening with a ratcheting wrench instead of messing with hose clamps. CHeap too, about $10 at Ricer Central. (Pep Boys)
Note the alignment of the TB, slightly off kilter. This allows 2 bolt holes to line up and the other two positioned over solid metal to tap more holes. LIning it up straight would expose about 1/2 of every hole, making taping 4 holes out of the question. I have a gasket in place underneath. Hoping to get a good seal with just the two bolts so tapping won't be needed and plenum can return to stock if needed.
Throttle cable needed to be shorted all the way to remove any slack. Just barely enough there to play with. May need to tighten just a tad more on the pedal end. FOr now I have drilled a small hole in the original ball end. Using the hole at the end of the throttle arm, I placed a cotter pin through to secure them together, old school style.
Vacuum lines... Note there are only 2 ports on front and both are above the butterfly when shut. You can run one to the distro, and one to the bottom of the WUR. You no longer need the line to the Deceleration valve. For the line going to the top of the WUR, which need lower plenum vacuum, I tapped a 3 way fitting into the oil vent line right above the plenum, as low and close as I could get it. On my set up the first line goes to a vacuum gage on my "Ricer" 3 gauge A piller set up as my MSD distro is not vacuum advanced.
Nitrous- going to get her running on this TB, then remove and tap for nozzles. Don't want to waste effort or mess things up. Nozzle are tiny Piranha's, part of one can be seen in pic below, the red and blue nuts on the supply lines. Plenty of room to mount now that there is no deceleration valve.
That's it for today, need to get back to work. BTW with a Nissan TB now in my car, does she need to start taking Anti-Rejection drugs?
06-13-2009, 02:31 PM
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MAde the idle bracket. OLd idle screw hold bracket to the TB. New set screw ajdustes idle. Need to leave brack as short as possible to avoid hitting the throttle plate arm when opened. USed solder for a test fit and then used JB Weld for a stronger hold. She started right up...with a crazy high idle..
Adjusted it down and she purred like a kitten. Set the timing again, let her warm up and started blipping the throttle. SOunds great. Very quick ramp up. RPMs drop like a rock, guessing the decel valve gone?
Heading out to drive her now and then my best "Twistie" road this afternoon.
Adjusted it down and she purred like a kitten. Set the timing again, let her warm up and started blipping the throttle. SOunds great. Very quick ramp up. RPMs drop like a rock, guessing the decel valve gone?
Heading out to drive her now and then my best "Twistie" road this afternoon.
