entropy_engineering

I've been casually working on a design for four years to cure some of the shortcomings I see with 928 engine and produce a good turbocharger "kit". I plan to go thru with mine completely in the next one to one and a half months.

I want to know, without a bunch of B.S., who would potentially be interested in having one of their own. It would be for 16 valve U.S. cars (less compression). Euro "s" cars would need lower compression or constant water/methanol injection among other potential changes. I have a euro engine of my own I'm building to test. I don't want to reveal all details on the kit yet, as I may be applying for a patent on part of the setup.

Details would be approximately as follows: Large single garrett turbocharger with room to support up to 750 hp. It's big, spools decent, and has a really efficient compressor map. Tial or Synchronic wastegate, BOV(s) of your choice, two new intake manifolds, two new throttle bodies, two new fuel rails, front mount intercooler, megasquirt fuel injection (with a "tune" that can be downloaded from me), injectors, all piping, exhaust manifolds, wiring, etc. It may require an electric fan. This will require a tastefull hood vent about two thirds the way to the windshield. I plan to sell one with the kit. I figure a black wire mesh vent with a black border would be easy to install and look decent. Perhaps with enough heat shielding it won't be necessary. All exhaust piping is getting ceramic coated and header wrapped. I will not be using stainless right now for the exhaust pieces because the price and its high rate of expansion. A wideband is suggested for fine tuning.

I'm working on a new breather system to eliminate the oil "catch can" crap on top of the motor. I'll be using a siphon breather system tied to the downpipe to pull a mild vacuum on the crankcase. I'm sure these won't pass atleast a visual inspection. It will also require two holes drilled in the inner fender to pass the intercooler pipes thru. I'm planning on using a FORD EDIS-8 ignition system for its simplicity and affordability of parts (and they have a stronger spark). A G.M. DIS unit is possible.

Sound like a hassle? It is. I guarantee pound for pound of boost this will make more power than any supercharger kit available period with more room to grow. I will be doing testing with my car soon, including later with a built engine. If I see interest, I plan to start selling engines set up to handle some real horsepower. I hate to open my mouth early, but I plan to make at or near 500hp at the crank if all goes well. About 10% to 20% more boost is possible with good water/methanol injection, which also keeps the engine looking new inside, if customers are interested. Pricing will likely be very near $7k. The same kit with a boost ready motor and appropriate driveline would make much more...

928SS

w/out a bunch of bs?

Kevin Michael

500 crank LOL!!

Leon Speed

On a Friday night?

Fabio421

Theres already a guy building a 16v system that doesn't require all of those accesories and it produces similar HP #'s. The last dyno at 12psi was over 480HP at the wheel with a less than optimal tune. That was with old school IHI journal bearing turbo's. There's another version coming along soon that uses the newest Garrett GT-RS dual ball bearing turbo's that should flow alot more. The problem with building any system for a 16v 928 is that the system usually ends up costing more than the car. Thats usually a problem for most potential customers. It's kind of like taking your $2.00 pet mouse to the vet. Most people don't feel that the investment is worth it, but theres always one or two that will.

Good luck with your project. It sounds very ambitious. I hope you are sucessfull in getting to your desired HP goal. It is doable, I have seen it. There are at least two guys here running close to 500 HP at the wheel in a 16v car. 928tt and hacker are both pretty close I believe.

entropy_engineering

Alright B.S. away I might go toss a few back myself. 500 crank lol? I prefer to stay conservative until I have some dyno time and solid feedback what I think the motor can take reliably. I plan to turn mine up till it pops then drop in the new motor.

entropy_engineering

I understand people are showing more hp than what I stated. Time will tell what's in store I'm sure no kit flows more than mine. Don't forget some people have already converted to forged pistons etc. and easily run more boost. I plan to do likewise for mine, but I'm looking at a bolt on deal now for budget's sake (a lot of people can't afford a built motor and forced induction both).

AO

In my experience, secrecy (especially for a 25+ year old car) is a sign of a person unwilling to share and help. People are generally lazy and very rarely steal ideas, especially for something this "big." Also, a patent will likely cost you tens of thousands of dollars and frankly the market for your planned kit is extremely limited. For your reference, the Murf kit has not eclipsed 100 units in the past 5 years and it is by far the most prolific 928 kit on the market.

So let's say you are able to sell 50 units over the same time period at a margin of 50%. That's 10 kits per year at $3,500 margin per kit. That's $35k margin per year. Your patent will pretty much eliminate the first 2 years of profit and the prototyping will probably suck up another 2.

So if it were me, I'd forego the patent, share my ideas and get new ideas (for free from the list) and reduce your prototyping costs and make a better kit and more profit.

That's what I'd do, but then I'm just BSing...

Fabio421

Oh, you said crank HP. Well that puts a whole new paint job on things. Thats already been done.


By the way, where do you plan on stuffing a single turbo that large?

entropy_engineering

Oh boy here it goes. I've got some intricate plumping and such worked out it's right in the vee of the engine block with two pipes over the cam boxes and around the back of the intakes. Two exhaust pipes run down the rear passenger side. One three inch pipe for the turbo and a seperate approx. two inch for the wastegate. I realise their are lots of concerns with heat, packaging, fuel rails, lines, etc. and adjacent "things" not to burn. I'm going to be measuring carefully before and after with a set temperature probes. Oil drain is thru the rear plug in the top of the block. It's a 70mm turbo I've already fit it up. I have a small forced induction shop that does custom turbo set-ups (that doesn't mean I'm good right?).

Brett928S2

Hi

500 at the crank....and then there was Nitrous....he says with a large wooden spoon in his hand

But seriously, there is already a twin Turbo 928 that produces a LOT more power than your theoretical one....

I cannot quite see the financial logic of this....for under $1000 you have Nitrous....for around $3000 you have blowers.....where will you find buyers for your kits ?

All the best Brett

AO

Brett-
I got tired of filling up the bottle. Yes the math doesn't support my decision to upgrade to a GT and then slap a twin-screw on it, but then my smile continues to tell me it was the right decision.

BC

Its so weird that we are talking about 500hp when 2.2L Mitsus are doing that without much work. We should be talking about 700hp for the 4.5L and 800 to 900 for the 5L

RicerSchnitzzle

There are already WUR's that allow boost on CIS. Take a Euro add a pair of K27's, meth injection and you have easily over 500crank HP for under $2K. Many DIY plans on the net that can be adapted to the 928, especially mid and rear mount as space is not a premium then.

F0r $7K there are already 928 turbo and SC kits out. Mid mount, rear mount and header mount. You're a little late to the party. And like Fabio said, only a couple of us nuts love the 16v enough to poor that kind of money into it.

Fabio421

A three inch and a two inch pipe will not fit there if the pipes are round. ( hint hint). A single 70mm compressor isn't going to flow enough to support 750HP efficiently. You are going to be over spinning and over heating the charge air ( in my opinion). But if you mount it there you should have room for a larger unit. Keep in mind that if your planning on running this on a stock engine your pressure ratio needs to stay under 1.63 ( I'm sure Hacker will disagree )