Strange S4 cooling problem - New Pump Failure
03-22-2009, 09:33 PM
#16
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
No I mean the one that failed for the original post of this thread.
Laso has failed as in Greg's case. The new Laso pumps have been modified to overcome this potential problem even though they had very few failures. Porsche pumps have failed as well - both new and rebuilt. The rebuilt Porsche pumps come from the same source as the rebuilds that were failing due to rebuild of rebuilds.
Laso is the only company doing something to make sure we have a safe pump IMOO.
No other manufacturer or rebuilder has done anything to address the issue including Porsche.
Laso has failed as in Greg's case. The new Laso pumps have been modified to overcome this potential problem even though they had very few failures. Porsche pumps have failed as well - both new and rebuilt. The rebuilt Porsche pumps come from the same source as the rebuilds that were failing due to rebuild of rebuilds.
Laso is the only company doing something to make sure we have a safe pump IMOO.
No other manufacturer or rebuilder has done anything to address the issue including Porsche.
__________________
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014
928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
03-22-2009, 10:01 PM
#17
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Posts: 9,903
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
No I mean the one that failed for the original post of this thread.
Laso has failed as in Greg's case. The new Laso pumps have been modified to overcome this potential problem even though they had very few failures. Porsche pumps have failed as well - both new and rebuilt. The rebuilt Porsche pumps come from the same source as the rebuilds that were failing due to rebuild of rebuilds.
Laso is the only company doing something to make sure we have a safe pump IMOO.
No other manufacturer or rebuilder has done anything to address the issue including Porsche.
Laso has failed as in Greg's case. The new Laso pumps have been modified to overcome this potential problem even though they had very few failures. Porsche pumps have failed as well - both new and rebuilt. The rebuilt Porsche pumps come from the same source as the rebuilds that were failing due to rebuild of rebuilds.
Laso is the only company doing something to make sure we have a safe pump IMOO.
No other manufacturer or rebuilder has done anything to address the issue including Porsche.
03-22-2009, 10:08 PM
#19
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I have fixed 2 S4s with this problem. Both had good pumps on them and had failed with previous pumps. Both were used cars with no history. The symptoms were high normal operating temperatures. I built up the block erosion with PC7 epoxy. Both have been reliable and one has been in many DEs with no more problems and normal temps.
Clean the block with acetone. Apply PC7. Install the new water pump without the gasket and rotate to "machine" the PC7. Remove the pump and clean the extra PC7 from the impeller. Reinstall the pump with the gasket. PC 7 is available at some auto parts stores and hardware stores.
Clean the block with acetone. Apply PC7. Install the new water pump without the gasket and rotate to "machine" the PC7. Remove the pump and clean the extra PC7 from the impeller. Reinstall the pump with the gasket. PC 7 is available at some auto parts stores and hardware stores.
03-22-2009, 10:41 PM
#21
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Posts: 9,903
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I have fixed 2 S4s with this problem. Both had good pumps on them and had failed with previous pumps. Both were used cars with no history. The symptoms were high normal operating temperatures. I built up the block erosion with PC7 epoxy. Both have been reliable and one has been in many DEs with no more problems and normal temps.
Clean the block with acetone. Apply PC7. Install the new water pump without the gasket and rotate to "machine" the PC7. Remove the pump and clean the extra PC7 from the impeller. Reinstall the pump with the gasket. PC 7 is available at some auto parts stores and hardware stores.
Clean the block with acetone. Apply PC7. Install the new water pump without the gasket and rotate to "machine" the PC7. Remove the pump and clean the extra PC7 from the impeller. Reinstall the pump with the gasket. PC 7 is available at some auto parts stores and hardware stores.
I am going to bolt the new rebuit water pump up and clay it to find out how much clearance I have on mine as soon as I got the block back.
03-22-2009, 11:01 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
03-22-2009, 11:06 PM
#23
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Blown 87,
"How bad were the blocks you repaired?
I am going to bolt the new rebuit water pump up and clay it to find out how much clearance I have on mine as soon as I got the block back."
As I recall, the one that we checked was worn .040". I think that car came from Texas. So, maybe one of
"How bad were the blocks you repaired?
I am going to bolt the new rebuit water pump up and clay it to find out how much clearance I have on mine as soon as I got the block back."
As I recall, the one that we checked was worn .040". I think that car came from Texas. So, maybe one of
03-22-2009, 11:35 PM
#25
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gone. On the Open Road
Posts: 16,432
Received 1,603 Likes
on
1,047 Posts
I used Earl's PC-7 fix on a local Yankee car. The old pump had machined about ~1-2mm out of the block and the car was running a bit warm before the fix. Since the "Earl Block Fix" (EBF) it has been running fine. It went to SITM and back with lots of "exuberant" driving on the BRP.
1-2mm is 0.039" to 0.078" for you SAE types. My bet, on the local car, is that it was closer to .07 than .04.
Roger - I'm also interested in identifying these "newer" Laso pumps.
1-2mm is 0.039" to 0.078" for you SAE types. My bet, on the local car, is that it was closer to .07 than .04.
Roger - I'm also interested in identifying these "newer" Laso pumps.
03-23-2009, 12:00 AM
#26
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Posts: 9,903
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
So you weather is kind of like Atlanta, but with less humidity. 
I dont care how dry or wet it is, when you get over 100 it is hot, and when you get below 55 is is cold, getting old is a bitch I guess, but it beats the alternative.
You think I will be ok with a good pump then?
That is what I am going to try and go from there.
You can tell from looking closely at my pictures that this pump is the one that did it, you can see the rust marks where the impeller rested against the block, with matching marks on the impeller.
I dont care how dry or wet it is, when you get over 100 it is hot, and when you get below 55 is is cold, getting old is a bitch I guess, but it beats the alternative.
You think I will be ok with a good pump then?
That is what I am going to try and go from there.
You can tell from looking closely at my pictures that this pump is the one that did it, you can see the rust marks where the impeller rested against the block, with matching marks on the impeller.
I've personally seen 3 blocks damaged by waterpumps... all 3 were tested just by adding a new pump. It's the only way you can determine if the cooling capacity has been harmed by the larger tolerances. Lucky for us, here in DFW we see high summer temps.... all 3 cars were tested in temps over 100 degree weather with no loss in cooling..... so the additional effeciency gained by using the epoxy may not be needed.... Keep in mind these cars were tested in the sahara desert by Porche as well as other warm weather environments.... (death valley comes to mind) If Roger has been working with Lasso to resolve the migrating impeller issue, that is more than Porsche ever did. One of the cars that expereinced this impeller eating the block issue was only serviced at dealerships only using new pumps each time. The reason I know this is that the owner had a shop that I was a part owner in, do the PPI. About 2 years later we did the timing belt and waterpump... and found the damage. It looked like the pump before the previous had done the damage, as we coudn not get the pump that we removed to touch the block and the impeller had NO MARKS on it. For those of you who are not familiar with our local weather patterns its not uncommon for us to see heat indexes of 115 in the summer..... and this car was not overheating... it was just in for the timing belt and waterpump.
03-23-2009, 12:08 AM
#27
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Posts: 9,903
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Blown 87,
"How bad were the blocks you repaired?
I am going to bolt the new rebuit water pump up and clay it to find out how much clearance I have on mine as soon as I got the block back."
As I recall, the one that we checked was worn .040". I think that car came from Texas. So, maybe one of
"How bad were the blocks you repaired?
I am going to bolt the new rebuit water pump up and clay it to find out how much clearance I have on mine as soon as I got the block back."
As I recall, the one that we checked was worn .040". I think that car came from Texas. So, maybe one of
How did you measure the wear?
03-23-2009, 12:19 AM
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Blown87,
It's been a few years, but as I recall I used modeling clay to check the clearance. I am sure that my measurements were VERY approximate. All I know is it solved the problem on 2 cars + Daves car that I forgot about. 1/8" is .125", I think that would affect the WP performance.
Try a new pump without the PC7 fix and then tear it apart and add the PC7 and tell us the results. Or move to Texas where scored blocks are not a problem.
It's been a few years, but as I recall I used modeling clay to check the clearance. I am sure that my measurements were VERY approximate. All I know is it solved the problem on 2 cars + Daves car that I forgot about. 1/8" is .125", I think that would affect the WP performance.
Try a new pump without the PC7 fix and then tear it apart and add the PC7 and tell us the results. Or move to Texas where scored blocks are not a problem.
03-23-2009, 12:24 AM
#29
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Posts: 9,903
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Blown87,
It's been a few years, but as I recall I used modeling clay to check the clearance. I am sure that my measurements were VERY approximate. All I know is it solved the problem on 2 cars + Daves car that I forgot about. 1/8" is .125", I think that would affect the WP performance.
Try a new pump without the PC7 fix and then tear it apart and add the PC7 and tell us the results. Or move to Texas where scored blocks are not a problem.
It's been a few years, but as I recall I used modeling clay to check the clearance. I am sure that my measurements were VERY approximate. All I know is it solved the problem on 2 cars + Daves car that I forgot about. 1/8" is .125", I think that would affect the WP performance.
Try a new pump without the PC7 fix and then tear it apart and add the PC7 and tell us the results. Or move to Texas where scored blocks are not a problem.
I will try what you say, it sure sounds a lot better than the fixes I had in mind.
Thanks
03-23-2009, 12:36 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
The new Laso WP I have has one cast number and one ink stamped number which I believe is a date stamp.
Given European convention it reads 090708 which interpets to the 9th of July, 2008. Hopefully this a new improved pump.
Given European convention it reads 090708 which interpets to the 9th of July, 2008. Hopefully this a new improved pump.