Fiberglass or CF roof? Carl's CF clip thread gave me ideas.
01-10-2009, 02:03 AM
#46
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I'd just make a new skin like the factory one. Even if it's a race car, it doesn't have to be crude. And any auto body supply store can sell you a two part panel adhesive that will bond any metal ( steel or Aluminum) stronger than welding. Lots of new cars have bonded panel now.
01-10-2009, 02:03 AM
#47
Nordschleife Master
As for the Targa's
Ken you know those are Cab shells that they start with right? The roof steel is still part of the chassis but its largely superficial.
Yeah explosive welding, that sounds like a nice DIY'er job. By the end of all this Brendan will have spent $100,000 on a $20,000 car......sorry, i dont see the logic
And Fabio, please spare me, what does that actual 928 roof skin weigh? Its sheet metal and the panel is wider then it is long, If i had to guess, i would say a non sunroof panel in steel weighs 12 lbs and maybe at most 15. What are you really going to save by going to an aluminum panel that maybe 40% lighter, but 40% of 12 or 15 is just a couple pounds. So i really ask you, IS IT REALLY WORTH IT?
Also its much more difficult to bond the aluminum (harder still to bond CF) to the steel substructure of the roof.
Agreed if the car in question is a track car and has a full cage then you are less likely to miss the cut out roof. But is Brendans car a track car? I recall powder coated suspension parts and gear box and axles, thats not ususally what one does in a track car. If your so concerned with weight then why are all those bits painted anyway ? I had assumed that this car was to be a showpiece but maybe im wrong.
Have fun
Ken you know those are Cab shells that they start with right? The roof steel is still part of the chassis but its largely superficial.
TRICLAD ! it's a common used material on ships to weld the steel hull on a aluminium deck... it's formed by "explosion" and holds a steel strip to a aluminium strip by "pression", so hard together it's bonded on molecule dimension.... just don't know if it exist in those thin sheet thickness... sure for ships , but that's more around 10 mms... so you have a "steel" side to weld and a aluminium one ! 
so you have a "steel" side to weld and a aluminium one ! Um... guys. Reading is fundamental. 
And Ryan, with all due respect, you are talking out of your @$$ here. We are talking about track cars here not concourse queens. You would not be adding any weight. And you would not lose any structural integrity, especially since the car will have a cage.
And Ryan, with all due respect, you are talking out of your @$$ here. We are talking about track cars here not concourse queens. You would not be adding any weight. And you would not lose any structural integrity, especially since the car will have a cage.
Also its much more difficult to bond the aluminum (harder still to bond CF) to the steel substructure of the roof.
Agreed if the car in question is a track car and has a full cage then you are less likely to miss the cut out roof. But is Brendans car a track car? I recall powder coated suspension parts and gear box and axles, thats not ususally what one does in a track car. If your so concerned with weight then why are all those bits painted anyway ? I had assumed that this car was to be a showpiece but maybe im wrong.
Have fun
01-10-2009, 02:09 AM
#48
Man of many SIGs
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And Fabio, please spare me, what does that actual 928 roof skin weigh? Its sheet metal and the panel is wider then it is long, If i had to guess, i would say a non sunroof panel in steel weighs 12 lbs and maybe at most 15. What are you really going to save by going to an aluminum panel that maybe 40% lighter, but 40% of 12 or 15 is just a couple pounds. So i really ask you, IS IT REALLY WORTH IT?
Also its much more difficult to bond the aluminum (harder still to bond CF) to the steel substructure of the roof.
Agreed if the car in question is a track car and has a full cage then you are less likely to miss the cut out roof. But is Brendans car a track car? I recall powder coated suspension parts and gear box and axles, thats not ususally what one does in a track car. If your so concerned with weight then why are all those bits painted anyway ? I had assumed that this car was to be a showpiece but maybe im wrong.
Have fun
Also its much more difficult to bond the aluminum (harder still to bond CF) to the steel substructure of the roof.
Agreed if the car in question is a track car and has a full cage then you are less likely to miss the cut out roof. But is Brendans car a track car? I recall powder coated suspension parts and gear box and axles, thats not ususally what one does in a track car. If your so concerned with weight then why are all those bits painted anyway ? I had assumed that this car was to be a showpiece but maybe im wrong.
Have fun
And it is not difficult at all to bond the panel with adhesive and fasteners.
01-10-2009, 02:16 AM
#49
Nordschleife Master
different ideas i guess
Do what you wish Brendan, i seem to be the only one that thinks a CF or Aluminum panel is a waste of time and money when steel is relatively easy to work with and the end result would be a proper roof panel, not something just simply rivited on or bonded on with some type of epoxy.
Why dont you just lop 2-3" off your scalp to save the hassle?
Do what you wish Brendan, i seem to be the only one that thinks a CF or Aluminum panel is a waste of time and money when steel is relatively easy to work with and the end result would be a proper roof panel, not something just simply rivited on or bonded on with some type of epoxy.
Why dont you just lop 2-3" off your scalp to save the hassle?
01-10-2009, 02:21 AM
#50
Man of many SIGs
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different ideas i guess
Do what you wish Brendan, i seem to be the only one that thinks a CF or Aluminum panel is a waste of time and money when steel is relatively easy to work with and the end result would be a proper roof panel, not something just simply rivited on or bonded on with some type of epoxy.
Why dont you just lop 2-3" off your scalp to save the hassle?
Do what you wish Brendan, i seem to be the only one that thinks a CF or Aluminum panel is a waste of time and money when steel is relatively easy to work with and the end result would be a proper roof panel, not something just simply rivited on or bonded on with some type of epoxy.
Why dont you just lop 2-3" off your scalp to save the hassle?
01-10-2009, 03:15 AM
#52
Nordschleife Master
what's wrong with presenting another argument?
Is that not the purpose of a discussion forum? When someone presents an idea, whats wrong with making a statement to try and disprove it if you feel its incorrect or ill-conceived? I dont just say what i say for the point of making an argument. You dont agree, so please feel free to disagree, just as I do with the original topic. What makes your idea any more credible then mine I ask? Its a discussion, treat it as such and nothing more...
Is that not the purpose of a discussion forum? When someone presents an idea, whats wrong with making a statement to try and disprove it if you feel its incorrect or ill-conceived? I dont just say what i say for the point of making an argument. You dont agree, so please feel free to disagree, just as I do with the original topic. What makes your idea any more credible then mine I ask? Its a discussion, treat it as such and nothing more...
01-10-2009, 03:38 AM
#53
My idea if I was building a racecar.
Make mold of original sunroof.
Cut all sunroof hardware off roof.
Make fiberglass sunroof from mold-leaving an extra few inches for a lip.
Epoxy/Bond lip of fiberglass sunroof to underside of roof.
With the lip molded to the underside the top would look original.
Make mold of original sunroof.
Cut all sunroof hardware off roof.
Make fiberglass sunroof from mold-leaving an extra few inches for a lip.
Epoxy/Bond lip of fiberglass sunroof to underside of roof.
With the lip molded to the underside the top would look original.
01-10-2009, 04:14 AM
#54
Nordschleife Master
My idea if I was building a racecar.
Make mold of original sunroof.
Cut all sunroof hardware off roof.
Make fiberglass sunroof from mold-leaving an extra few inches for a lip.
Epoxy/Bond lip of fiberglass sunroof to underside of roof.
With the lip molded to the underside the top would look original.
Make mold of original sunroof.
Cut all sunroof hardware off roof.
Make fiberglass sunroof from mold-leaving an extra few inches for a lip.
Epoxy/Bond lip of fiberglass sunroof to underside of roof.
With the lip molded to the underside the top would look original.
I think he even tried to offer them for sale at one point but i dont think anyone bought them.
01-10-2009, 04:28 AM
#55
01-10-2009, 11:44 AM
#56
Man of many SIGs
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
what's wrong with presenting another argument?
Is that not the purpose of a discussion forum? When someone presents an idea, whats wrong with making a statement to try and disprove it if you feel its incorrect or ill-conceived? I dont just say what i say for the point of making an argument. You dont agree, so please feel free to disagree, just as I do with the original topic. What makes your idea any more credible then mine I ask? Its a discussion, treat it as such and nothing more...
Is that not the purpose of a discussion forum? When someone presents an idea, whats wrong with making a statement to try and disprove it if you feel its incorrect or ill-conceived? I dont just say what i say for the point of making an argument. You dont agree, so please feel free to disagree, just as I do with the original topic. What makes your idea any more credible then mine I ask? Its a discussion, treat it as such and nothing more...
You most certainly did
Thank you, times up.
01-10-2009, 12:15 PM
#57
In Your Face, Ace
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CF sunroof panel with all of the parts removed and the inner lining roof panel cut out to make more head room. Weight savings was around 30lbs plus gained around 3-4 inches of head room.
01-10-2009, 12:15 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
My favorite clip Fabio. Priceless.
Anyway, I went back to seal the deal with the rustic gentleman who has a sunroofless 80 in his back yard shedding parts. I will drill my spot welds in my car and bring him the entire roof. Then I will drill his roof out and put mine on his (just lay it there), and take his. I know it will work out just fine.
Is 250 fair for a roof?
Anyway, I went back to seal the deal with the rustic gentleman who has a sunroofless 80 in his back yard shedding parts. I will drill my spot welds in my car and bring him the entire roof. Then I will drill his roof out and put mine on his (just lay it there), and take his. I know it will work out just fine.
Is 250 fair for a roof?
01-10-2009, 04:11 PM
#59
Nordschleife Master
My favorite clip Fabio. Priceless.
Anyway, I went back to seal the deal with the rustic gentleman who has a sunroofless 80 in his back yard shedding parts. I will drill my spot welds in my car and bring him the entire roof. Then I will drill his roof out and put mine on his (just lay it there), and take his. I know it will work out just fine.
Is 250 fair for a roof?
Anyway, I went back to seal the deal with the rustic gentleman who has a sunroofless 80 in his back yard shedding parts. I will drill my spot welds in my car and bring him the entire roof. Then I will drill his roof out and put mine on his (just lay it there), and take his. I know it will work out just fine.
Is 250 fair for a roof?
01-12-2009, 11:53 AM
#60
Developer
30 pound weight savings must be for sunroof equipped car and include maybe the sunroof motor too?
I just did this Saturday, and we got 6 pounds out of it. Maybe 7 if my roof didn't already have big hole in the middle taken out.
I agree with Jim Bailey's post about the foilds - we looked hard at it and did not like what forming the aluminum was going to be like in the corners above the a-pillars, at the nose of the roof over the windshield, and we thought that the acute bend at the rear would certainly crack the aluminum during forming.
So we left 1" on all sides, we will flange the aluminum roof to be a flush seam, and use countersunk rivits instead. Thats why we cut it out the way we did.
Still - it was 6 pounds, and the replacement will be about 1.5 pounds. Worth it? I think yes.
I just did this Saturday, and we got 6 pounds out of it. Maybe 7 if my roof didn't already have big hole in the middle taken out.
I agree with Jim Bailey's post about the foilds - we looked hard at it and did not like what forming the aluminum was going to be like in the corners above the a-pillars, at the nose of the roof over the windshield, and we thought that the acute bend at the rear would certainly crack the aluminum during forming.
So we left 1" on all sides, we will flange the aluminum roof to be a flush seam, and use countersunk rivits instead. Thats why we cut it out the way we did.
Still - it was 6 pounds, and the replacement will be about 1.5 pounds. Worth it? I think yes.