Jadz928

I did a search and read up on clutch chatter, judder problems. Not so many regarding reverse only. That is the problem I'm having with Perl. Feels great in all forward gears, reverse is a bugger and barely usable.

I just redid the entire clutch hydraulic system. Clutch master preload is set per WSM. I have good clutch pedal "feel" and the forward gear clutch engagement is the best I've ever felt.

I noticed my pivot arm bushing is looking a little worse for wear. I have another one ready to install.

My question is what else should I do WYAIT? Also, is there any way to fix the reverse issue in the meantime (ie could I relieve preload on the clutch master)?

TIA

BTW, It really feels good to have Perl back on the road. She's running great, just as long as I don't have to back up.

UPDATE: I replaced the tranny mounts and the reverse issue is gone.

Lizard928

Jim,

I just had to fix this issue on a local car, Sean is on here but rarely posts so he may or may not chime in.

When we talked I thought it must just be a normall clutch chatter. upon him backing it up it sounded outside like he was hopping the tires from doing a reverse burn out.

It was REALLY bad and made it practically unusable IMO.

The problem was easily found though.

There are 4 bolts which hold the bellhousing to the engine, Both of the ones on the drivers side of the car were missing. So one top and one lower.
We werent able to get replacement bolts that day so I got a slightly smaller and longer one and put it through the bottom and tightened it right down. Tested it and problem had gone away.

So please check these bolts before actually doing anything with the clutch. Even if they are there make sure all 4 are tight.

GregBBRD

Colin is correct. This is a frequent issue. The lower bolts can get loosened when the exhaust is removed and then forgotten.

Also check the engine and transmssion mounts, at the same time. A broken mount may allow the engine or transmission to rise away from the frame, when in reverse.

Jadz928

Thank you Colin and Greg. Will check the bolts and tranny mounts. Motor mounts are new.

You are right Colin, this isn't your "typical" chatter. This feels like the back end of the car is ready to hop off the ground.

How do tranny mounts break?

Jadz928

Bell housing bolts were good. One torque tube bolt was loose, but the chatter was still there.

Tranny mounts are shot. This appears to be the main issue though exacerbated by a clutch nearing the end of it's lifespan.

So it's new tranny mounts and a clutch in my near future. I know I could do the tranny mounts first to see if this cures the problem, but it would only be a matter of time on the clutch. The release arm is at the tail of the inspection hole.

I tell ya, Perl is really taxing me ($$). I'll feel pretty good about it after this though.

GregBBRD

Jim:

The transmission mounts are very easy to change and are fairly cheap...why not throw in a set and see what happens? Might delay your clutch issue.

Jadz928

Greg,
I tossed that around. The clutch engages right of the floor which is unusual. Methinks I may need a little more clutch hydraulic bleeding to get that back to where it was.

The other side of me says just bite the bullet and get it done. Problem is I don't know how many more miles I can get out of it. Thanks.

Jadz928

How about this... is there anything catastropic about clutch failure? Meaning, is the failure mode generally uneventful ie. clutch slippage?

I'm interested in seeing if the tranny mounts fixes the reverse issue. Also, I have a lot of money wrapped up in this car right now (in the past 3 months). Seriously, if I could get 5-10K miles more out the clutch, that would buy me at least a year.

GregBBRD

The lack of available travel is somewhat common and this can be sometimes cured, with a bit of "magic" while bleeding and adjusting. I can try and describe what to do...but not now...it takes too much time.

The clutch failure mode is either slipping, or the inability to get the clutch to release. Very seldom a chatter issue...especially only in one direction.

Of course, if the pivot ball cup is in multiple pieces, that will not help the location of the release point.

Jadz928

Greg,
Thanks for your time. I decided to only do the tranny mounts first. And I will bleed out the system again, this time a different way. Done burp bleed and clutch slave push bleed. Will try a reverse bleed and a combination of the former.

Clutch ball cup is not so good, but generally seated (though possible it is affecting travel some). Definitely not in a bunch of pieces yet. So we'll see how it goes.

Thanks again for taking the time. Will let you all know if the tranny mounts takes care of things.

marton

The WSM says
"The wear limit has been reached for cars up to and including 1982 models when front edge of lever just appears in inspection hole.
Beginning with 1983 models there were changes in starter installation and
inspection hole location. The wear limit has been reached when front
edge of lever reaches end of inspection hole."

Yours is post 82 so sounds like you have plenty of clutch life left if by tail you mean the front of the hole; if not then the time is now.

Marton

worf928

+1

And, my '91 used to chatter in reverse.... until I replaced the fragged ball cup bushing. However, that was what I guess you'd call a 'normal' chatter, not some hopping-off-a-cliff kinda chatter.

Jadz928

Greg,
You got it! New tranny mounts fixed the problem. It seems to make sense because of the reverse only condition. Replacing the motor mounts must've changed the tranny into an unhappy position.

Thank you everyone posted.