WARNING: Rayco Eurospec Motorcars - Kingston, Pennsylvania
11-21-2008, 01:20 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Rittenhouse Neighborhood
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WARNING: Rayco Eurospec Motorcars - Kingston, Pennsylvania
Just a warning to those considering doing business with Rayco Eurospec Motorcars in Kingston, Pennsylvania... This is the relatively fancy looking dealership on Wyoming Avenue in the Scranton / Wilkes-Barre area which I now realize has earned a rather horrible reputation.
Some locals even refer to them as "Rape You - Euro." I've got to admit, I've been having dreams since I pulled my car out of there that I'm in the woods and some dude in a Rayco Euro shirt keeps telling me to "squeal like a pig..."
If you search on internet, you'll find a few stories, mostly all negative it seems. It's implied that they have burned so many bridges with local customers, that they've had to advertise further outside of the area to make up for the lost business. I pity anyone who buys a car from them without a really decent independent PPI...
They specialize in selling cars that they've fixed up. I've seen some rather beaten cars in their shop, getting all spiffied up for those out of state sales that keep them in business... Since they are incompetently staffed, it seems that getting the beater cars ready for sale takes priority there.
I had a horrible experience with these fools this summer. They took my car in for servicing a few months ago. There was nothing out of the ordinary. I wanted a timing belt job, pktensioner upgrade, an x-pipe installed, brake service & detailing. I was told that they could do the work in a week, at most...
This was by no means a "project car." It was driven some 35 miles there and the carfax assures me that it had a couple of thousand miles put on it in the last few years. I was going to do the work myself, but decided to trust them. What a mistake!!!
Certainly, this should have been under 2 days of labor. Less, I'd expect, if they had any experience with these cars, as they assured me... 2 1/2 months and every excuse in the book later, I pulled the car out of there and took it to another mechanic that I had discovered while they were jerking me around...
It took them 3 weeks to even look at my car, despite my "appointment." They told me that "they've started work" only to have me find my car parked exactly where I had left it, days later. The manager of the showroom confirmed that they unfortunately hadn't started the work yet. In other words - "THEY LIED TO ME..."
Fitting one of Roger's x-pipes seemed beyond them. They insisted that it just won't fit the car. The shop it's at now had it done in no time at all, without much fuss...
They gave excuse after excuse about why they were making such slow progress. They had a sick mechanic at first. Then he went on vacation. Then they were backed up because an Audi TT that was in for a timing belt exploded upon startup. (Of course, they blamed Audi...)
Every week they had a new excuse for me. In the end, they implied that it was MY FAULT, as providing the parts slowed them down. The only time I was able to provide additional parts, Roger had them in the mail the same day that I was told what they needed. Of course, they ordered the wrong parts, but even so, that SINGLE ORDER only slowed down part of the job, and even then, for only a week... What? They couldn't fit the exhaust because they were waiting on brake pads??? Appears so...
The rule with them seems to be that they tell the customer what they want to hear, and do whatever they feel like, I guess... Other reviews seem to agree... I suspect that it goes far deeper; perhaps they have enlisted some second rate Soviet surplus space program chimpanzees and are having problems with them fixing anything other than Mercedes diesels???
A few years ago, I called for an estimate on an alternator replacement for a 911 that I had, and was quoted $500 for labor alone, which is ridiculous, I feel.
I suppose that I felt that "the place was different now" but I really should have looked them up first. I see now that there are a lot of negative reviews online. They have been accused of misrepresenting cars. They have been accused of charging for work which they never did. They have been accused of abusing puppies. Ok, that one's made up, but after what I've been through, there's no dam way I'd trust them with my doggies...
I had dropped the car off with a ton of parts & instructions. I gave them everything they needed to get started, at least. When they said that they needed yet more parts, I asked for details which they couldn't provide at the time. Despite my firm instructions, I was billed at the end for over $600 of "nickle and dime parts" and another $400 for the "labor charges..." (Roger had the "nickle and dime" parts for less than HALF of what they had charged me...)
One of my favorite parts of this depressing story was how, after leaving my car on a lift for over a month, they moved it outside, and let it parked there for about a week, with it's window down, doors unlocked, and interior haphazardly loaded with the parts I provided. THIS IS NO WAY TO TREAT A CUSTOMERS CAR...
Soon after I pulled the car out of the shop, I noticed a 2" long minor dent in a fender and several paint chips which I am certain that they were responsible for. What makes the former REALLY IRRITATING is that I HAD PROVIDED THEM WITH SERVICE COVERS... Of course, when I'd stop in to check for progress, I'd see that they weren't using them.
Anyway, my car is STILL in a shop nearby, but the work is progressing, at least, and I am really comfortable with the quality of what has been completed. Should be any month now... It better be. My VHS copy of Risky Business is mostly unviewable during the chase scene...
Anyway, just a fair warning to those smart enough to do an internet search for reviews of shops that they're considering trusting. These guys SUCK!!!
Some locals even refer to them as "Rape You - Euro." I've got to admit, I've been having dreams since I pulled my car out of there that I'm in the woods and some dude in a Rayco Euro shirt keeps telling me to "squeal like a pig..."
If you search on internet, you'll find a few stories, mostly all negative it seems. It's implied that they have burned so many bridges with local customers, that they've had to advertise further outside of the area to make up for the lost business. I pity anyone who buys a car from them without a really decent independent PPI...
They specialize in selling cars that they've fixed up. I've seen some rather beaten cars in their shop, getting all spiffied up for those out of state sales that keep them in business... Since they are incompetently staffed, it seems that getting the beater cars ready for sale takes priority there.
I had a horrible experience with these fools this summer. They took my car in for servicing a few months ago. There was nothing out of the ordinary. I wanted a timing belt job, pktensioner upgrade, an x-pipe installed, brake service & detailing. I was told that they could do the work in a week, at most...
This was by no means a "project car." It was driven some 35 miles there and the carfax assures me that it had a couple of thousand miles put on it in the last few years. I was going to do the work myself, but decided to trust them. What a mistake!!!
Certainly, this should have been under 2 days of labor. Less, I'd expect, if they had any experience with these cars, as they assured me... 2 1/2 months and every excuse in the book later, I pulled the car out of there and took it to another mechanic that I had discovered while they were jerking me around...
It took them 3 weeks to even look at my car, despite my "appointment." They told me that "they've started work" only to have me find my car parked exactly where I had left it, days later. The manager of the showroom confirmed that they unfortunately hadn't started the work yet. In other words - "THEY LIED TO ME..."
Fitting one of Roger's x-pipes seemed beyond them. They insisted that it just won't fit the car. The shop it's at now had it done in no time at all, without much fuss...
They gave excuse after excuse about why they were making such slow progress. They had a sick mechanic at first. Then he went on vacation. Then they were backed up because an Audi TT that was in for a timing belt exploded upon startup. (Of course, they blamed Audi...)
Every week they had a new excuse for me. In the end, they implied that it was MY FAULT, as providing the parts slowed them down. The only time I was able to provide additional parts, Roger had them in the mail the same day that I was told what they needed. Of course, they ordered the wrong parts, but even so, that SINGLE ORDER only slowed down part of the job, and even then, for only a week... What? They couldn't fit the exhaust because they were waiting on brake pads??? Appears so...
The rule with them seems to be that they tell the customer what they want to hear, and do whatever they feel like, I guess... Other reviews seem to agree... I suspect that it goes far deeper; perhaps they have enlisted some second rate Soviet surplus space program chimpanzees and are having problems with them fixing anything other than Mercedes diesels???
A few years ago, I called for an estimate on an alternator replacement for a 911 that I had, and was quoted $500 for labor alone, which is ridiculous, I feel.
I suppose that I felt that "the place was different now" but I really should have looked them up first. I see now that there are a lot of negative reviews online. They have been accused of misrepresenting cars. They have been accused of charging for work which they never did. They have been accused of abusing puppies. Ok, that one's made up, but after what I've been through, there's no dam way I'd trust them with my doggies...
I had dropped the car off with a ton of parts & instructions. I gave them everything they needed to get started, at least. When they said that they needed yet more parts, I asked for details which they couldn't provide at the time. Despite my firm instructions, I was billed at the end for over $600 of "nickle and dime parts" and another $400 for the "labor charges..." (Roger had the "nickle and dime" parts for less than HALF of what they had charged me...)
One of my favorite parts of this depressing story was how, after leaving my car on a lift for over a month, they moved it outside, and let it parked there for about a week, with it's window down, doors unlocked, and interior haphazardly loaded with the parts I provided. THIS IS NO WAY TO TREAT A CUSTOMERS CAR...
Soon after I pulled the car out of the shop, I noticed a 2" long minor dent in a fender and several paint chips which I am certain that they were responsible for. What makes the former REALLY IRRITATING is that I HAD PROVIDED THEM WITH SERVICE COVERS... Of course, when I'd stop in to check for progress, I'd see that they weren't using them.
Anyway, my car is STILL in a shop nearby, but the work is progressing, at least, and I am really comfortable with the quality of what has been completed. Should be any month now... It better be. My VHS copy of Risky Business is mostly unviewable during the chase scene...
Anyway, just a fair warning to those smart enough to do an internet search for reviews of shops that they're considering trusting. These guys SUCK!!!
Last edited by nsantolick; 11-21-2008 at 01:53 AM.
11-21-2008, 02:03 AM
#4
Team Owner
From your story it sounded like the shop didnt want to work on your car, I would have given them a week to have the belt off and waiting for parts.
Remember the 928 is a car that with the help of this board some people with the time and tools can work on , so if you do your homework, and not rush things you too can be turning wrenches, and if you dont want to get your hands dirty then it might be a good idea to do your homework and research the best shops to have your work done at, before setting off for the fancy facade
By the way who are you???
Remember the 928 is a car that with the help of this board some people with the time and tools can work on , so if you do your homework, and not rush things you too can be turning wrenches, and if you dont want to get your hands dirty then it might be a good idea to do your homework and research the best shops to have your work done at, before setting off for the fancy facade
By the way who are you???
11-21-2008, 02:33 AM
#5
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Rittenhouse Neighborhood
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, I did try to research for local shops. When I bought the car, it seemed that it was up to date and needed nothing. I couldn't confirm the age of the timing belt, and the last Porsche authorized service indicated that it was in twice in 2004 for "belt fluttering..." I'm still glad I went for the timing belt work as it turned out both cam gears and the oil pump gear were worn. (pictures to come eventually)
I had the car up on ramps in my driveway and made it as far as draining the coolant and removing a few items. When I realized I couldn't get under with the ramps enough to reach the coolant plugs in the block, I wussed out and called Rayco.
Prior to Rayco, I joined the PCA, mostly to meet people who might know where a good local shop was. All they could suggest was a factory authorized place in Allentown (Knopf) but they wanted something like $4000.00 for the belt job and another $700 for retensioning. They would have replaced a lot of parts with new Porsche ones, and did guarantee their work for 2 years I believe. If I could do it again, from the beginning, I think I'd have just gone with them. Either that or maybe even shipping the car off to Roger or someone like that...
The local factory dealer didn't want to work, and recommended another place in town, but they scared me off when they insisted, because of their massive experience, that they don't use meters to adjust tension, and prefer their thumb pressure...
Another shop in the area that is big into 911's never even called me back. The other shops I knew were already ruled out as they don't do much work on cars like this in the first place...
Rayco insisted that they work on 928's a lot - that there was one in the shop that week for a timing belt job. Anyway, they have a bunch of Porsches and Ferrari's for sale and even though they seemed expensive, I made the mistake of trusting them... Whoopsie...
I don't want to mention the name of where it's at now. I'm happy with the quality of the work that they've done, but it's been there for a long time now too. At least the owner who is personally working on my car has owned 928's in the past. I've seen pictures of his last one - even had Nox...
The new guy has installed the pktensioner and done the basic timing belt stuff. Both cam gears have been replaced, as well as the oil pump gear. The x-pipe, with cats, has been well-fitted. He's replaced the brake lines with stainless ones, new pads, sensors & spacers and painted the intake and valve covers after sandblasting the old finish off.
I'm getting a bit impatient, and have even considered pulling it out of there since the work under the car is done now, but for now will leave it with him. His work is really nice, and I like the mechanic. I understand that he's a bit overloaded, but I didn't have a lot of choices. Few would take in a car that's already partially disassembled, little lone do modifications.
I bought this car hoping to be driving it all summer. The timing belt stuff scared me, so I didn't want to drive it until that was all taken care of. I had planned on fixing it, but had a diesel apart and swore that I wont take another car apart until that one was done. By the time it was done, it was super hot outside, and I was reassured by Rayco that it would be done fast.
When I pulled it from there, I felt it was over my head to reliably reassemble the car and had a lot of faith in the new place. After all, he was familiar with the Citroen SM's mechanics, and that meant a lot to me... Different car, I know, but it's rare and complex enough that my opinion is that if he could do that, he's perfect for the Porsche. Anyway, I know he owned one himself...
More to come... : )
I had the car up on ramps in my driveway and made it as far as draining the coolant and removing a few items. When I realized I couldn't get under with the ramps enough to reach the coolant plugs in the block, I wussed out and called Rayco.
Prior to Rayco, I joined the PCA, mostly to meet people who might know where a good local shop was. All they could suggest was a factory authorized place in Allentown (Knopf) but they wanted something like $4000.00 for the belt job and another $700 for retensioning. They would have replaced a lot of parts with new Porsche ones, and did guarantee their work for 2 years I believe. If I could do it again, from the beginning, I think I'd have just gone with them. Either that or maybe even shipping the car off to Roger or someone like that...
The local factory dealer didn't want to work, and recommended another place in town, but they scared me off when they insisted, because of their massive experience, that they don't use meters to adjust tension, and prefer their thumb pressure...
Another shop in the area that is big into 911's never even called me back. The other shops I knew were already ruled out as they don't do much work on cars like this in the first place...
Rayco insisted that they work on 928's a lot - that there was one in the shop that week for a timing belt job. Anyway, they have a bunch of Porsches and Ferrari's for sale and even though they seemed expensive, I made the mistake of trusting them... Whoopsie...
I don't want to mention the name of where it's at now. I'm happy with the quality of the work that they've done, but it's been there for a long time now too. At least the owner who is personally working on my car has owned 928's in the past. I've seen pictures of his last one - even had Nox...
The new guy has installed the pktensioner and done the basic timing belt stuff. Both cam gears have been replaced, as well as the oil pump gear. The x-pipe, with cats, has been well-fitted. He's replaced the brake lines with stainless ones, new pads, sensors & spacers and painted the intake and valve covers after sandblasting the old finish off.
I'm getting a bit impatient, and have even considered pulling it out of there since the work under the car is done now, but for now will leave it with him. His work is really nice, and I like the mechanic. I understand that he's a bit overloaded, but I didn't have a lot of choices. Few would take in a car that's already partially disassembled, little lone do modifications.
I bought this car hoping to be driving it all summer. The timing belt stuff scared me, so I didn't want to drive it until that was all taken care of. I had planned on fixing it, but had a diesel apart and swore that I wont take another car apart until that one was done. By the time it was done, it was super hot outside, and I was reassured by Rayco that it would be done fast.
When I pulled it from there, I felt it was over my head to reliably reassemble the car and had a lot of faith in the new place. After all, he was familiar with the Citroen SM's mechanics, and that meant a lot to me... Different car, I know, but it's rare and complex enough that my opinion is that if he could do that, he's perfect for the Porsche. Anyway, I know he owned one himself...
More to come... : )
11-21-2008, 08:20 AM
#7
Sounds like a bad situation all around and I wish you luck on this new shop.
What year is your car?
What year is your car?
Trending Topics
11-21-2008, 08:49 AM
#8
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Rittenhouse Neighborhood
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a 1989 S4 with an automatic transmission. Grand Prix White with an exceptionally clean gray leather interior. It's a really clean car with 77,000 miles or so. I probably could have just driven it as it was, at least for a while, but in the end, I couldn't confirm the age of the timing belt. After they had the system apart, it seemed that the cam gears and oil pump gear were worn down a bit. Should be a really nice example once it's back.
11-21-2008, 08:54 AM
#9
Drifting
I feel for you, but it is hard for me sympathize with you. Note to all the new guys that buy 928s. Please work on your own car, and if you cant for the love bwahh, please do extensive homework on a shop before you take it there. I hope the new shop gets you fixed up.
11-21-2008, 09:01 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
I had the car up on ramps in my driveway and made it as far as draining the coolant and removing a few items. When I realized I couldn't get under with the ramps enough to reach the coolant plugs in the block, I wussed out and called Rayco.
Anyway, my car is STILL in a shop nearby, but the work is progressing, at least, and I am really comfortable with the quality of what has been completed. Should be any month now... It better be. My VHS copy of Risky Business is mostly unviewable during the chase scene...
I'm getting a bit impatient, and have even considered pulling it out of there since the work under the car is done now, but for now will leave it with him. His work is really nice, and I like the mechanic. I understand that he's a bit overloaded, but I didn't have a lot of choices. Few would take in a car that's already partially disassembled, little lone do modifications.
That said, this forum, as you already know, is a great place for advice, even better than for ranting, and that advice can be a godsend for the DIY wrencher and the owner who needs feedback on what his shop/mechanic is doing/needs to do. But it is a forum - a place for public discussion, not just cussin' - so join in and let us know year/model etc. And in any case - good luck and keep us posted!
11-21-2008, 09:13 AM
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Rittenhouse Neighborhood
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree completely. I did though try to find the best shop in the area and originally intended to do it myself. I was backed up with work and even started the project. The day I finally got to it, it was wickedly hot out and I was having problems safely getting under the car. I'd have never even considered Rayco if they didn't assure me that they were familiar with the work and promised to have it done really, really fast. Should have been a clue for me when they estimated 5 hours total for the belt/water pump job... The place looks impressive and moves a lot of high-end cars, including a lot of Ferrari's and Maserati's. My mistake...
Here's a link with photos from one of my first posts...
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/436422-it-hath-arrived-now-suffering-terminal-incurable-priapism-lol.html
And some pictures from the day that I tried the project.
Here's a link with photos from one of my first posts...
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/436422-it-hath-arrived-now-suffering-terminal-incurable-priapism-lol.html
And some pictures from the day that I tried the project.
11-21-2008, 09:20 AM
#12
Race Car
I find it amazing that people buy these cars and drop a ton of money on shops that have not worked on this type of car for 15 years then complain. The dealers are no better, show me an old timer with experience, not a, we will read the manual and figure it out. A long time ago and 3-928 rebuilds I can only say make sure you have a manual, invest in tools, a lift and a membership. If you add what it cost to farm these out your investment will come back in no time. As I read these horror stories I wish people were closer to me I would fix these with out a lot of excuses. As an average $2,500.00 is about right in parts to bring everything up to new including intake, motor and shocks. Remember once it's new its new. Taking a 20 something year old car and resurrecting it just feels good. Stop complaining and take action unless your waiting for your Obama debit card to arrive. If I can do it so can anyone, in 2000 when I purchased my first 928 I had to look in the manual to find the dip stick. 
11-21-2008, 09:25 AM
#13
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Rittenhouse Neighborhood
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True, it was a bit of a rant. Maybe even a tirade. lol I've tried to remain patient, but have lost a lot of sleep over it, constantly worrying about it originally, and now just anticipating its arrival. I've been stopping in or visiting the new shop weekly and impatience got the best of me.
The new shop does seem to know what they're doing though. The x-pipe looks great, even though they had do do some additional modifications to hook up the air pump, necessary for them to pass the emissions test. Its nice that the owner has done a ton of work on his own 928's. He's even shopping around for a new one, for himself, it seems.
The idea was, at first, to have a perfect car by April. I didn't find the right car until well after that and as the year went on, it started to mess with me a bit. I STILL haven't really driven the car, and now I'll need snow tires immediately. Although I've watched just about everything on internet 928 related, I still haven't personally felt how they perform. Hell, I didn't even see one up close for a couple of years prior to mine being delivered from South Carolina...
I've told the new shop that I'm okay with however long they need, as long as they are sure it's ready for a thrashing afterwards. I intend for this car to be my year round daily driver. I still plan on supercharging it as soon as I'm confident that the mechanics are tip-top. I'm sure there's still a lot of work that I'll do myself as soon as its back, particulary plugs, plug wires & coolant hoses, in addition to some electrical work.
Nick
1989 Porsche 928 S4
1960 Citroen 2CV
1973 Citroen SM
1986 Maserati Biturbo Zagoto Spyder
1971 Mercedes 280S
1964 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Coupe
1974 Alfa Romeo Spider
The new shop does seem to know what they're doing though. The x-pipe looks great, even though they had do do some additional modifications to hook up the air pump, necessary for them to pass the emissions test. Its nice that the owner has done a ton of work on his own 928's. He's even shopping around for a new one, for himself, it seems.
The idea was, at first, to have a perfect car by April. I didn't find the right car until well after that and as the year went on, it started to mess with me a bit. I STILL haven't really driven the car, and now I'll need snow tires immediately. Although I've watched just about everything on internet 928 related, I still haven't personally felt how they perform. Hell, I didn't even see one up close for a couple of years prior to mine being delivered from South Carolina...
I've told the new shop that I'm okay with however long they need, as long as they are sure it's ready for a thrashing afterwards. I intend for this car to be my year round daily driver. I still plan on supercharging it as soon as I'm confident that the mechanics are tip-top. I'm sure there's still a lot of work that I'll do myself as soon as its back, particulary plugs, plug wires & coolant hoses, in addition to some electrical work.
Nick
1989 Porsche 928 S4
1960 Citroen 2CV
1973 Citroen SM
1986 Maserati Biturbo Zagoto Spyder
1971 Mercedes 280S
1964 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Coupe
1974 Alfa Romeo Spider
11-21-2008, 09:42 AM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Rittenhouse Neighborhood
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Before them, I had called the local Porsche dealer as well as the shop they suggested. I joined the PCA and went to a meeting just to ask for advice. I searched around quite a bit. EVERYONE disappointed me.
Rayco SEEMED like a good bet at the time. I'd never go to a shop again without a lot of good references. I'm fairly certain that after this, I'll do most work myself. I'm even checking into getting my own lift as I'm sure it would make a huge difference in the PITA factor, and I'd like to do some more serious restorations in the future...
At the time I took the car in to the shop, I had a Mercedes taken apart and expected to do some work to a '86 Maserati that I found while searching for the Porsche. I figured that I'd finish up those cars myself and just pay the "pros" to properly do the Porsche...
I've messed around with interesting cars on and off for around 25 years now. Over the last decade, I had two new Ford Cobras, and they were serviced by the dealer. Prior to that though, I did most work myself, after a ton of nightmares with other dealers.
I've had a Saab in a shop for a tranmission for over a year, only to have it blow up within a quarter mile of picking it up. I've had a Mercedes in a shop for over a year for a transmission leak and a carb issue. Problems like that got me into fixing them myself..
The Porsche was sent off mostly because I felt it would be done perfectly, and quickly. I started the work, and gave up when I couldn't reach the engine coolant plugs. Typically, Rayco just skipped that step when they took things apart...
"If you want something done right, do it yourself" seems to be advice I'll stick to henceforth... : )
Nick
1989 Porsche 928 S4
1960 Citroen 2CV
1973 Citroen SM
1986 Maserati Biturbo Zagoto Spyder
1971 Mercedes 280S
1964 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Coupe
1974 Alfa Romeo Spider