surfdog4

I'm removing the water pump as part of a timing belt change..i have all the bolts loose except the one behind the upper tensioner idler pulley...I can't seem to get the pulley off the boss, and i can't get a puller behind it..have soaked it with PB blaster and given it a few taps.

Is there a trick to getting it off? Also, I'm assuming the boss is removable, as my replacement water pump does not have it attached (So i didnt want to just start prying it off with a screwdriver)

Any advice would be appreciated

the flyin' scotsman

What model and year do you have?

IIRC the idler pulley is held in place by a bolt that once removed the entire OEM tensioer pulley system can be removed. Need to check PET as I installed the Porken tensioner and forgot about it.

the flyin' scotsman

Looked @ PET and the idler is held by a screw and once removed slide off the idler roller and arm then theres a pivot bolt you unscrew that holds the pump in place.

Good luck.

surfdog4

this is for an '81..the shoulder bolt shown on the PET goes through a boss that is mounted to the water pump..when you remove the bolt, you can remove the tensioner arm, but the upper pulley stays on the water pump, pushed onto the boss.. i can't get the pulley off. THe PET does not show this bushing for some reason, but it is referenced in timing belt procedures i have

surfdog4

here's a pic...the new water pump has a threaded hole that is larger than the bolt..so i'm assuming that center boss screws into the water pump (if you can get it out without bending or breaking it) correct?

The nasty black stuff is the remmants of my timing belt as it was grinding on the tensioner arm..nice, huh?

Mrmerlin

Thats a nasty picture, you need to do lots of things here to bring this engine up to date .. SO DONT be in a rush to put it back together..

Given the picture of the crank keyway the crank may not be at TDC IIRC at 45deg the keyway faces the right side frame rail or 3 O clock position, this one looks like its at 1130.


For the bearing it looks like its toast figure on a new one , To get if off there are a few ways the easiest is to get a small puller hook around the edges and get a bolt and drill a pilot dimple in it and screw it into the waterpump press off of the bolt the bearing should slide off they are somtimes held in place with loctite.
When you refit the new water pump make sure you get a full set of new hardware I would suggest that you coat both sides of the new gasket with Blue RTV and use some loctite PTFE pipe sealant on the bolts ( this will keep them from getting corroded into the block)

For the tensioner arm make sure you have 5 mm spacer that goes under the tensioner arm and make sure to get new busjhings and a new pivot bolt, use the PTFE sealant on the pivot bolt threads (from the picture your old one was leaking)

Moving on I would say that its time to upgrade all of the drive and driven pulleys that means a new round tooth drive gear on the crank as well as 2 new thrust flanges, a new front main seal.
A new steel oil pump pulley as well as the oil pump O ring and its radial seal and the 3 small O rings under the oil pump bolts. (note remove the 1mm spacer under the old aluminum square tooth oil pump gear when you refit the new steel version) Also make sure that the outer driven ring of the oil pump has the small dots facing to the block and the beveled edge faces the pump. Also use some STP to assemble the pump and pour some into the pump so that it will not have any issues getting primed. You will also need the driven gear on the crank the 2 cam pulleys and if the radial seals are leaking behind the cam pulleys now is the time to replace them

So for parts my suggestion is the following
1 timing belt, install so you can read what it says while your facing the engine
1 crank drive gear with the HTD tooth design HTD = hi torque drive
2 thrust flanges ( for either side of the crank drive gear)
1 front main seal
1 oil pump O ring
1 oil pump radial seal
3 small O rings for the oil pump bolts
1 Pivot bolt for the tensioner arm
1 tensioner bearing ( this rides on the belt and keeps it tight)
1 idler bearing that fits on the water pump ( the one your trying to remove)
2 pivot bolt bushings
1 water pump preferable a fresh rebuilt one
1 WP gasket
A complete tensioner rebuld kit ( pay careful attention to how the bevelled washers are placed in the tensioner , reference the WSM for correct positioning)
2 cam pulleys ( with HTD, round teeth )
1 oil pump pulley in steel, HTD
a full set of replacement hardware for the waterpump
Blue RTV
loctite PTFE pipe sealant
STP oil treatment to prime the oil pump and fill the tensioner
2 gallons of your favorite coolant

Goodluck and keep em flying

surfdog4

MrMerlin,
Thanks for the tips..actually i was in the process of doing pretty much everything you listed (except the HTD drive, figured if this car made it ~100k with the old system why diddle..but i know that is a point of debate).new bolts, new seals, new water pump, new pulleys, etc etc

Yes the crank is out of position...when i was trying to get the crank gear off i turned it to get a better angle on the woodruff key..

The problem is i'm stuck on that &%^$ idler pulley on the water pump..I can't get it off (at least without being rude and probably breaking/bending the boss that it's stuck on) my puller won't get behind it..and i haven't found a puller online yet that looks like it will.

I'd just buy a new boss and gorilla the old one off if there was a part listed in the PET for it, but all it shows is the bolt and the washer. Did these used to some installed on the water pump?

The black nasty-ness came from the old timing belt being ground down because of the tensioner bolt working loose and allowing the timing belt to droop towards the front...looked like black cotton candy in there

Lizard928

I would recommend with what MrMerlin has said for replacing/doing.

But to get that pulley that is stuck on there off, simply take a large flat head screwdriver and put it between the pulley/bearing and pump casting, and simply pry it off. Dont worry if you destroy the bearing/pulley, the new one should come with an updated roller. You wont damage the pump casting from doing this either. Work it on one side then the other.

surfdog4

Thanks..i love prying with a flat head screwdriver!

I think my problem is I am missing the boss that the roller/bearing rides on...looking around the internet it looks like many of the pumps come with the boss attached to the replacement pump..my new pump doesn't have one..so i think i'll call tomorrow and talk to the folks i got the kit from

the flyin' scotsman

...........or a 1" coal chisel.

Be careful with the new WP your putting on; there's a few versions. PET lists 928 106 015 09 for the '81 MY.

Lizard928

Surfdog, dont worry about what pump you have. Just upgrade to the porkensioner and then it doesnt matter!

Mrmerlin

If the new pump doesnt have a raised boss they you got the wrong/newer pump so now you have a choice if you go the Porkensioner route its going to add about 450.00 to the repair. I wouldnt even think about putting a square tooth belt back on , its a poor way to repair something

Imo000

Ahhhmm..... Don't do that.... I did the same thing on my '83 and the casting snepped off. If you don't care about the core then you can simply just whack it with a hammer and the idler will snapp off.

Leslie 928 S2

Oh that sucks.

Imo000

I disagree. His engine is none interfearance and if the pulleys look good, why not keep everything as it was and installe a new belt. Yes the square toothed setup is inferrior to the HD one but when installed properly, it will work just fine. It lasted this long, I'm sure it will last a little longer too.