jon928se

In theory you can - all depends on wether you can get your arm in there wielding a 10mm spanner or 10mm socket and ratchet. at least you know the bleeders aren't siezed shut.

Charley B

Who can tell me why?

Mrmerlin

the CV boot grease would make the rubber on the brake lines soft and thus have a higher probability for swelling and failure

mark kibort

If the car has the s4 calipers, the bleeder is a 11mm, if it is a early bugger, its the 7mm for those bleader fittings.

I dont think you can get in there from behind. for sure on an S4, but in this case, i would want to bleed all of the fittings. (inside and outside). If one is broken, you would need do do some tricky piston pushing to make me feel comfortable that all the bad (wrong ) oil was removed.

I would just drill those things out and pull the wheel off.

Mk

powpowj

I had a 93 tahoe that had p.s. added by accident just a top off the rear brakes froze up, rotors got red hot only a mile or two from home flushed the system soft brake feel Decided to replace master, the tahoe never braked the same. Had to trade in for another car

Fogey1

Shops can have a different view of appropriate response, for understandable and legitimate liability reasons, than an individual doing their own work. Ask the brother whether he'd have done the same thing with his own car worked on at home? And whether he autopsied the old parts when they came off? And consider that it's OPM paying at a shop.

I don't think a flush for a first step is evil or even reckless. Whether it works is another thing.

dr bob

Jim--

I'm late to the discussion, read the first page and flipped back here to share some warnings.

Petro oils ruin the soft parts of the brake system. The soft parts get softer and rot. As Mr Merlin recommends, plan on at least a soft-parts overhaul of the system before you drive it again. You'll need a new MC, brake hoses, caliper rebuild kits for the piston seals at minimum. The ABS pump is likely to have soft seals in it but I don't know for sure. I'd replace it with good used just to be sure.

I would not run brake cleaner through soft systems I didn't plan on replacing. No worries for you since you will be replacing, but aimed more at others who might be tempted. Use it to clear and flush all the hard lines, but make extra sure that you get all of it flashed out before you assemble the new soft parts to the system. Any cleaner left in there will cause problems later when it all gets warm again.

Good luck with this.


Don't skimp or shortcut on this. The reason the pressure built up in the system is that the seals in the MC swelled already and covered the bleed hole back to the reservoir. It happens that fast. Since you flushed it through the system, all the other soft parts are suspect.


It's unfortunate that this happened, but good news that you and the car are not permanently damaged.

Nicole

How did you end up getting the broken piece out?

I have a front caliper with a broken piece stuck in there...

ew928

We bled all the other bleeder ports and left that alone.
Hopefully not that much old fluid trapped on one side.

It's major work to get it out. Not sure if one can drill it out and then pick out the threads of the bleeder screw with a pick. It was rusted on due to missing bleeder rubber cap so a used caliper may be more time efficient repair.


Mixology. Works well with ethanol and sugary fluids.
Not so good in car parts.

Jadz928

Update:
Well the PS fluid is now evacuated. Since I couldn't get the wheels off, I've found you can flush/bleed brakes without removal of said wheels. Not that bad, though easier to take the wheels off.
None the less, Super Blue (which is what I should've use in the first place (and that's the last time I'll kick myself)) is flowing trough the system.
So I'll wait to see what Pentosin has to say. I'm mostly curious about what affect limited exposure may have to seals.
I've read everything you all wrote... Dr Bob, Stan, Mark, et al. It may end up being a systematic approach. Front calipers (rebuilt) on the rear, GTS brakes up front. SS brake lines. New brake master.

As far as I see it, (though my wife may not appreciate it) this is just a bonding experience between Perl and myself. Sometimes it just has to give you a kick in the *** for some needed attention. I know, I just bought the Perl and it's been getting plenty of attention as it was. Even moreso now, and I will give it tough love. It's going to be great when I get it all buttoned up... I love it when these cars run like they did of the showroom floor. That is where I'm headed. And I'll do the right thing, in my own way. And then I'll drive the **** out of it, just like it wants to.

Thanks again, all.

Mrmerlin

if you have doubts about what a chemical can do to the rubber in a brake system just take any black O ring you have and measure it with some vernier calipers then put some CRC brake cleaner in a cup drop the O ring in it ( use the stuff in the red can ) leave the O ring in the cleaner for about 3 mins then remeasure it.
As far as using this stuff (the CRC )to clean out the lines I should have been more specific only use it on the hard lines and make sure you use compressed air to remove all of the chemical before you refit the soft lines. I think replacing the ABS unit with a good used one is a good idea.

Also the reason I am suggesting this approach of replacing everything is so in 2 years your brakes will still be working as they will when you do this job correctly the first time, and you wont have any problems in 5 years if your changine the fluid every 2.

As a side note,
You can also achieve similar results by adding synthetic brake fluid to your non synthetic compatible brake system, thou you probably wont have a problem for months then the brakes will start to get soft and then you will be replacing part after part ......

I would also sugggest that you use eithe ATE Super Blue Racing fluid OR ATE Gold brake fluid. its simple the brakes are designed by ATE and they also know the compunds used in the rubber seals they spec for their parts, and they also spec the fluid contents

Lizard928

Jadz,

what I would do in your situation is to remove the calipers, and pop the pistons out of them. I would then remove the seals in the caliper and let them fully air dry for a few days.
I would also do the same to the MC, except I would leave the seals on the center shaft.

From what you said earlier with the bleeding of the rear brakes, I do not believe that the seals swelled closing off the rear port.
I would be with the MC removed blowing brake clean, or a similar componant through the brake lines (calipers off as well) through the system with compressed air.

If the rubber hoses in the brake system are origonal, I would replace them with stainless braided at this time as they are VERY cheap to replace.

If you want to replace the ABS unit in the framerail, I have a good used one from an 86.5, pm me if you are interested (CHEAP).

if when the seals come out they are really swollen, they should let everything evap till it is normal consistancy, this will not happen had you left it all together btw. And most rubber things would swell within minutes of being in the wrong substance, but I DOUBT the brake seals are true rubber.

mark kibort

flush it all out, and check for operation. If the seals have absorbed the thicker viscosity petrolium based or mineral based oils, then you will see if its a problem when the system is flushed and you try to drive down the street. see how the pedal feels initially ,by pumping the system up before you drive. then, with minimal pressures, drive down the road about a mile or two. see if the rotors are dragging or hot. If not, you might be ok.
There are a lot of good points brought up here. the one thing you have on your side is the time the bad fluid has been in the system, but everyday you wait, the risk of complete system failure/damage, gets greater.

drilll out that lug nut and get that wheel off and pump/bleed the system (not power bleed). Or power bleed to get all the stuff out first, and pump bleed to get the system moving with the proper fluid.

let us know how it goes.

mk

Jadz928

Mark,
You are right, good points all around. Flushed the system last night. First, Power Bleed the PS junk out, then power bleed Super Blue in. Yea, that's right.... I had Super Blue on the shelf in the garage
Bleed everything to include the clutch hyd.
Brakes were a bit mushy. I will flush it again when I can get the wheels off.

Though I'm considering the system revamp option even more now. I'm looking into what the damage will be. Roger, you da man!
And I figured while I have this problem, I might as well turn it into opportunity. So I may throw some GTS brakes on the front and rebuild the S4 fronts and put them on the back. Paint them shiny red, get some x-drilled rotors....
I'll start a new thread about that.

I guess my only saving grace at this point is I got the car for short money.

Jadz928

Well besides all your sage advice and concerns...

When I bleed the system last night, I pulled the clutch master to burp it. Problem was the cylinder didn't slide out as easy as it usually does. And this is whith 10-12psi backing it up. And it didn't go back in easy, actually ripped the front seal in process (had to put a spare in to finish the job) without leaking.

I have a feeling the rubber had enough exposure to have already swelled. I know this is just anecdotal, but it was enough for me to say, hmmm...

I'm going to try the rubber oring and CRC trick Stan spoke about.

And my guess is Pentosin will not respond. Too much liability to give any advice. Maybe if I sign a waiver... but I can't write german.

Danke.