928ntslow

Can these be replaced while engine is in the car? If so, how?

Tom. M

Are you talking the the big round oil seals? or the cam plugs that fit in the last cam carrier (for S4 cams and up)? Either way, yes, just pull the cam covers, and the rear most cam carrier...insert the seal (or plug), replace the cam carrier ..replace cam covers.? Or am I misunderstanding the question?... I did both mine in-situ on the GT after i replaced the two bent valves..

Lizard928

I have replaced them in the car (the round end plugs that seal to the outside), without removing the cam cover, or bridges.

But I did have to cut and weld a 10mm wrench to be able to accomplish it.

Mrmerlin

to remove the plug, after removing the cam cover the WSM suggests to only loosen the cam caps however Loctite 574 sealant should be used to reseal the cam cap to the head to prevent leaks, use some Yamabond on the head to cam cap area where the gasket is square edged

928ntslow

Cam plugs. This is what they are. They are leaking. They fit over the back of the cams. (2 are located at the front of the heads and two seal rings wrap the sprocketed cams)There are 6 required on 32 valve cars. They are pressed/popped in like any other oil ring. These are closed ended. There is a M6 bolt that holds an arm in place that slips over the plug center nipple. Easy enough to get to the bolts...they do not need to be removed, but removing the plugs and pressing the new ones in seems near impossible.

Hopefully this makes it clearer as to what I am talking about...sorry, I thought all 32 valve guys knew what these were.

So if you know what I am talking about, how (in detail) can this be done with the cam covers on.

If the cam covers are off, still, how to your remove them? (in detail). I didn't find this in the WSM.

TIA

RyanPerrella

yes they can be replaced while the engine is still in the car.

bwoyat

WSM 15-128a: Installing camshaft seal

87 models onward

Englne type M 28.41/42/47/49/50

1. Place sealing washers (lock pins M28.49/50 as of MY ‘92) into bearing seats and fit bearing saddle with Loctite 574. Tightening torque: 20 Nm (15 ftlb)

2. After torquing the bearing bridge, install sealing cover with the aid of Special Tool 9234.

85 models onward

Englne types M 28.43l44/45/46/41142/47/49/50

Englne Installed

Note: If the sealing cover of an engine as of model year 85 (32 valve engines) leaks with the engine installed, the procedure for installing the cover is as follows:

1. Place camshafts and sealing washers in bearing.

2. Apply Loctite 574 to bearing bridge and install. Place a 0.20 mm feeler gauge between bearing bridge and cylinder head and tighten bolts slightly by hand.

3. Apply a light film of oil to sealing cover and press on by hand. Tighten bearing bridge to specified torque.

M 6 bearing bridge - 10 Nm (7.5 ftlb)
Mod. 85/86

M 8 bearing bridge - 20 Nm (15 ftlb)
from Mod. 87

Note: you want to replace the sealing washers with lock pins.

928ntslow

Bummer. If I read this correctly, the valve covers are removed and the camshaft bearing closest to the end sealing plug needs to be removed.

Looks like there is no way to get the plugs out and in without removing the valve covers.

Colin, I'd be real interested to know how you accomplished this with the valve covers on...Mr Magician!

RyanPerrella

Keith,

to do the plugs (5 of them) the valve covers must come off so does the rear most cap. But you dont need to touch cams.

To simply replace the seals then you can do that without touching the cam covers, assuming of course you can find a means of removing the seals.

AO

I think bwoyat is confusing the oil plug for the end seal.

I don't see why they have to come off except for ease of removing the seal. If you're hell-bent on replacing them you could probably remove them with a flat-heat screwdriver and a hammer. Punch a hole in the middle of them and "pop" them out. Getting the new one in will be a bit tricky, but I'm sure a long prybar and some blocks of wood strategically place should do it. Fronts are more straight forward.

Just to be clear...

Mrmerlin

by loosening the cam cap you will allow the plug to fit into the bore them be captured, it then shouldnt leak, BUT also you may consider that the cam cap is also leaking and mking it look like the caps are bad, so now is the time to reseal the cam cap with the Loctite and get 2 birds with one stone

mj1pate

Removing the old ones did not require any drilling or creative labor. The old factory plugs did not press in like the replacements do. Inserting the replacements with the engine in the car is pretty tricky. The plugs press in with some forceful pressing around the outer edges. There is little space behind the engine to accomplish this. Blocks, pry bars of various sizes, shims (to create variably sized blocks) were all necessary. The replacement plugs do not leak. There are some excellent threads in the forum on user experiences and methods, so a search will be profitable.

davek9

+ 1 on what AO said, I did them on my 32 v 85 with only removing the air filter box.
I also had the car jacked up as it can help if you can reach up from under the car if needed. A few small blocks of wood on the firewall and various pry bars to gently push/lever them in, just do it evenly. I did mine over two summers ago and no leaks (did not use any sealant, but I don't see how a small amount could hurt). These are just like any other Oil seal that press in. Took me about an hour.

bwoyat

Read WSM 15-128a, it's pretty straight forward.

My thinking is that if a couple of the rear sealing covers are leaking, the others are probably soon to go therefore you're probably best taking off the cam covers and doing all the sealing washers and sealing covers.

In my post I just copied the instructions straight from the WSM. When I rebuilt my engine it was out of the car so it was a bit easier but the manual shows how to do it with the engine installed.

The terms the WSM use for the parts needing replacing are "sealing washers" and "sealing covers".

Due to problems with the old style sealing washers breaking down and leaking they should be replaced with the newer style lock pins.

It's a bit of work but once it's done right it's one less thing to worry about for a long time.

You can leave the camshafts in place.

bwoyat

Just wanted to add that if you are just going to replace the sealing covers, I found that they are pretty snug and I had to tap them in with a hammer with the bearing bridge torqued down. So I would think that would be pretty tough with the rear covers as I don't know how you could get a hammer in there?

Like the WSM says, with the engine installed put a 0.20mm feeler gauge between the bearing bridge and the cylinder head, hand tighten the bridge, oil the edge of the sealing covers, slide in place and torque to spec.

good luck!

Brent