PorKen

(312 hp, 301 tq SAE stands) for my stockish X-pipe auto.

After another round of dynos in 90° intake temps, I could not better the previous runs made in 70° temps. 310±2/295±2 was the best I could do. I might be able to coax it closer to 320 come winter again...I think the auto pulls better numbers with cooler temps, for example.

I guess you could say that 310ish hp, and 300ish tq is pretty good for an auto S³, but mo' is betta! Anyhu, I learned a few things in trying to get mo' to the flo'.

-1° to +3° cam loses 15+ rwhp - but -1° feels sluggish off the line in comparison

-1° to -4° made no change in hp/tq, but did raise the rpm level - might get better mileage?

10lb+/ea heavier wheels = no change

Belt driven fan = 5+ rw hp/tq at top end

Running hotter with fan removed made more power - 83°C thermostat better for NA motors?

(My EZ-F tweaks) made the most power, +5° over the stock cruise map - with the (knock sensor retard) disabled - more than eBay chips, or the SharkTuned WOT map.

Barring some new magic, I think I'm done all I can do with the stock parts. I've done my 'due diligence', and I'll have to take it to another level, now...or something...

Many thanks again to Louie, for the dyno help.

Tom. M

Yea...get an S4..and start with 312..and go up from there

pcar928fan

Those are big numbers! My S4 w/ RMB and an AutoThority chip did 266/267 rear wheel Hp/Tq... My GTS's did 283/304 Hp/Tq, so I am interested in why and '86.5 which is rated lower than all three of those cars (and WAY LOWER than the GTS's) would be pulling such good numbers...

ew928

Don't know why but I reverted from 75 thermo to 83 and it felt like the motor was peppier. More eager. Maybe its just all in my head.

Ken, I've got a 95 deg thermo if you need to go warmer.
With the 95, the engine temp would go right up to the upper white line. Scared the heck out of me to see the temp needle so high since the car had gone for emergency surgery for a stuck thermostat. No idea where that shop got hold of a 95 deg thermostat.

doktor-t

So I didn´t go wrong by converting to a electric fan after all? I did remove the airpump at the same time and in my opinion the engine feels more lively.

/Tobias

Daniel Dudley

It's not your imagination. What model year do you have ?

Mike Frye

Ken,

So what does that translate to at the crank? 312 at the wheels is well into S4/GT/GTS numbers, no?

When I get mine dialed in I'll post my numbers for comparison. It's a 5 speed with Autothority chips and crossovers but I still have the stock 2 into 1 into 2 exhaust from there back. I'm hoping to break 300, but with the stock rear muffler and single exhaust it's probably a little out of reach, no?


I'm still on the fence about this conversion. I'd like to do it to free up some space and since my air pump is not connected to anything I'd like to remove the drag from the engine. I'm just concerned that I'll have an electrical problem and the fans will go out and I'll be sunk.

Anyone ever had a problem like this where an aftermarket fan died and caused overheating or worse?

doktor-t

Mine is a 1986 S3 euro, it does have the 32v engine like the 86,5´s got in the US (like PorKens). In Sweden my car i really rare, donno about another 32v -86 in Sweden.

My mechanic fan didn´t really spin that easy as I thought it would and by just accelerating the fan-pulley with my hand it felt like it did consume lots of power.

Maybe, the fan and airpump robbed my car of 10-15 hp? I´d like to think so without to high expectations. In the same time I also descreend the MAF and put in a new air-filter and of cause, many small horses ads up.

/T

JKelly

Great job Ken!

Could you sum up a list of all the parts you have changed (added or removed), beginning from a completely off-the-showroom-floor stock car, and the best settings you've found as far as timing, temperature, etc? I've tried to keep up with many of your 86 experiment posts, but I'm kind of lost.

For example:
Air filter (oem or aftermarket k&n)
MAF screens still in?
MAF spacer installed?
Stock injectors?
Stock spark plug wires?
Spark plug type/brand (copper, plat 4's)?
Viscous fan installed or electric?
Air pump installed/functioning, or bypassed?
Cam timing?
Stock chips, aftermarket, or self-burned?
Sharktuned?
RRFPR installed?
Fuel pressure?
X-Pipe installed (Dr. gas, ott-x, motorsports, diy)?
Headers?
Stock muffer?
Rear muffler bypass?
Mufflerotomy performed?
Intake tubes still in?
Intake modifications or redirections?
Engine oil type, dino or syn?

anything else?

Darklands

Hi,

this is my first post here.I´m from Germany and drive two 928.A 928 S2 Euro auto 12/83 without cat´s and a 2/1986 5 speed manual S³.
I have the airpump on the 86.5 removed because with metalcats it´s useless.The mechanical fan is driven by a very short lawnmoverbelt.(533 mm*13mm)
The belt cost 10 € and needs no tensioner.
My next steps are the x-pipe and kens mods.

/Karsten

PorKen

Lots of small stuff. (Listed out in this thread.) Since then, I've managed to tweak it the wrong way, with a cooler thermostat, for example.

Mostly it's a matter of ignition advance. I don't know if it's the long duration cams, or the shape of the head chamber (smaller valves too?), but in my experience the S³ can take a lot of advance w/o pinging with just a little prep. (IE. cold plugs, WR5DC, atmo crank vent.)

Perhaps most important is keeping the intake air cool, and separated from radiator air. On the dyno, have the hood open, and a fan blowing on the intake. By doing the above, the airbox temps dropped from >130°F, to <90°F, and the numbers went from 270-280 to over 300!

Ford injectors, disconnecting the crankcase vents from the intake. A little bit of grinding on the intake legs around the fuel injector ports, and smoothing the casting bumps in the housing between the MAF and the TB, and filling the two crankcase vent ports in the housing with silicon (not the IAC port).

AFAIK, a hotter engine is more efficient, because less heat is able to transfer to the coolant. Cooler can mean more spark advance if there are hot spots, but all the 928 engines I've seen get better on the dyno after each run, as they heat up.

At first, I was concerned the previous time on the dyno with the 83°C thermo, because the needle was just below the upper white line, but my cooling system must be in good shape, because it never went any higher. With the 75°C, it hovers a little bit above the first line. That's with the belt driven fan, which really cools the engine well. After the first run after I cut the belt, the temps rose to the upper white line, even with the dyno fans.

95°C (203°F) is crazy! Is there a Behr/Wahler part number on it? If the fan/radiator can keep the temp constant, that might be something to try...

I already had my airpump removed, but I imagine that the air pump and a working(!) mechanical fan can take 10 rwhp at the top end.

I had the belt fan, no airpump, when I made 312 with the SharkTuned chip, but those runs were made in December, with SAE perfect 70°F intake temps. With 90°-110°F temps this time, I was fighting a losing battle. I did have a couple runs of 316, and 322(!), but those were with 120°F+ intake temps, and lots of correction, so I didn't keep them. My EZ-F'r 2.0 tweaks made more power than the ST WOT chip from before, so I think under the same conditions, I could actually be making >320 rwhp.

Conservatively, with the auto, I'd say 350 chp.

After the Ott X-pipe, with H mod (HeX pipe), I have the stock '86.5 mid exhaust 2¼" pipe, big resonators, and a modified stock two inlet rear muffler (pumpkin). The early single resonator system is a bit more restrictive I think.

The AA/ebay chips are good for 290. I managed 302 before with them. At that time, the SharkTuned WOT map chip was better than clone chips, and this time, the EZ-F tweaks made more than the ST chip. (WOT switch disconnected, +5° over the cruise map.)

The belt fan gets in the way, but I think I'll keep it. I still made big numbers with it, albeit at cooler air temps. For A/C I think it's the best. BTW, I discovered that it is much, much easier to work on the engine from below, now that I have a lift. The throttle relay bracket, and fan for example are totally made to be removed from below.

PorKen

BTW, the MAF makes a huge difference! I have two rebuilt MAFs, and one makes more power than the other. You want an A/F ratio with a rich mid, and lean top.

OK, but just between us... I don't want everyone making as much power as me... there can be only one!


Air filter (oem or aftermarket k&n)
OEM

MAF screens still in?
removed

MAF spacer installed?
no?

Stock injectors?
new Ford 24#

Stock spark plug wires?
stock

Spark plug type/brand (copper, plat 4's)?
Bosch WR5DC+

Viscous fan installed or electric?
viscous

Air pump installed/functioning, or bypassed?
removed

Cam timing?
0° or -1°

Stock chips, aftermarket, or self-burned?
stock LH and EZ-F w/EZ-F'r 2.0 tweaks, +5° over cruise, WOT disco'd

Sharktuned?
no, but there's more ponies there with custom ST ignition and fuel cruise/base maps, WOT input disco'd (h/t Louie)

RRFPR installed?
no

Fuel pressure?
stock regulator

X-Pipe installed (Dr. gas, ott-x, motorsports, diy)?
Ott-X with H (HeX pipe), no cats

Headers?
no

Stock muffer?
stock big resonators, mod'ed stock rear

Rear muffler bypass?
no, even at 312 it is not very loud

Mufflerotomy performed?
yes, inlet restrictions removed

Intake tubes still in?
yes, stock small S³ tubes, stock airbox

Intake modifications or redirections?
intake legs smoothed 1" up, MAF/TB housing smoothed/PCV ports (front and side, not IAC) filled*

Engine oil type, dino or syn?
5-40 syn, <¼ over the fill line!

Anything else?
RadCov'r
intake refreshed
83°C thermostat
vapor recovery system removed
air temp sensor replaced with 5K resistor

*cam cover vents plugged, dual hoses from oil fill tower into 1" hose to atmo

icsmike

So you can block off the cam cover vent tubes? what about PCV?

ew928

92 deg thermostat.
French made.
Copper colored body.
ID number on unit: V-6557

Sent you PM, Ken.

PorKen

Cap the cam covers, remove the PCV valve, and run two hoses (13-15mm ID) from the oil fill tower (into a separator - right now, mine just dumps on the ground ).

This keep the plenums and MAF/TB housing from filling with oil. Oil crust buildup on the end of the intake legs can be a 1mm or more thick, this reduces the max HP. The vapors reduce the octane rating, too.



As long as I keep the oil level just over the lower/fill mark on the dipstick (no more than ¼), I get very little oil ejection on the dyno.