shmark

Sorry to hear that because there's no question you should have been in competition for both overall class honors and best of show, which is how most concours work outside of PCA. I was a big PCA advocate for many years and really enjoyed being in the club, even being on the local board for a couple years. But I have become very disillusioned with the club in the past couple years and this year let my membership lapse, on my 10-year anniversary. Damn, would have gotten a sticker for that. It's become very much an inbred club and if you're not in with the senior members then you're out. They always say you can change things, but it changed for the worse in my case.

Chuck Z

You know who that might be?



Jim wasn't in the Preservation Group. I believe he was in Preperation. Jim is one of the nicest guys I have met at a Porsche gathering of any kind in quite some time. I really enjoyed meeting him and his wife. Nice car too!

I would have beaten Bob's GT only b/c I have more miles I don't know about if he is unhappy with the rules or not but based on all the low mileage mint condition cars he has it would stand to reason. Bob wasn't even in attendance.

What a nice thing to say Carl. Thank you.

I agree and would take them up on that trade. I was hoping Peter Porsche would see it and do something about that. I talked to several of the guys from Porsche Cars North America who saw the car and came back several times with others from PCNA and looked it over quite intensely? Who knows.......

Chuck Z

Thanks Mark. I too was very involved in PCA for a number of years and was even President of the Carolinas Region back in 1999. This event marked my retirement from all things PCA (I do not have bad feelings but for the reasons you state I'm out) but, I do have another opportunity in October. I have been invited to the Hilton Head Concours d'Elegance thanks to Jeff Frye of Atlanta. We'll see how things go outside the PCA circle of influence?

rixter

Chuck, yes Jim is a great guy, we helped prep his car
you should go back the last few days on posts.. I've been a busy guy

atb

I sent in an inquiry.
Didn't name any names, just an inquiry as to why there is not a true preservation class where cars are not penalized for lack of mileage. I stated that I concurred with the point that was raised that there are probably several examples of low mileage preserved cars that are not being showed because there isn't a class for them to make it worth their while. I agree with the concept of an open class in this regard. I would think that that would make it an exciting contest, putting Kermit up against other preserved Porsches as opposed to just other 928's.

Marine Blue

Chuck nice job, even if it wasn't first place. We all know Kermit is perfect and the only reason it didn't win is because of the way the rules are written. It really should be in a museum somewhere and I'm sure that is where it will end up eventually.

Turnout looked great and that preperation "tent " would be an absolute dream! I can't believe how extensive some of the preperation was, I definitely don't have it in me to remove wheels/tires and clean undercarriage before a show.

My GT would probably do well in Preservation which is where I will start showing (if they ever have a real concours in the northeast!). I have considered other classes but it's impossible to compete elsewhere since many will throw a great deal of money into a car to win.

I guess the one thing that I always take away from concours events is the awe from spectators and the "how on earth do you get the engine that clean" comments. I hope to someday see Kermit and meet you in person. Who knows, maybe between the few shark owners we can raise enough ruckus to change the rules a bit so they don't favor the air cooled cars.

pcar928fan

You mean one like my garage??? YEA!!! Come on Chuck help out a brother man! The wife saw some pics of your car I was looking at online and said, "I really like that color. Very unique." Usually don't get much rise out of her. Of course she saw Blue82 and said, "BUY IT! It is the color you have been looking for all these years."

Marine Blue

James you NEED to buy one of these beauties for your garage. It would definitely complete the collection.

I need more toys in the garage, someday I hope to have a collection like yours and Chucks before he started dismantling his.

Vilhuer

Its very interesting that PCA rules do not value originality more. In Ferrari concours changed block would be big nono no matter why it was done and 1500 miles all original up to Maranello air in tires car would win entire event. Sounds like PCA rules are total opposite.

bronto

It is consistent with the idea that "Porsches were made to be driven".

Jadz928

Well, if that's the case, maybe the Porsche Parade organizers should have put less emphasis on the Concours and more on a proper driving rally.
They did this Gimmick Rally "scavenger hunt". Needless to say, I didn't go on it. If there was a proper driving rally, I missed it.

Jadz928

Chuck... and all you other 928 folks in Concours, I'm sorry I missed you. Had a couple hiccups getting out of Richmond Sunday morning. Arrived in Charlotte too late. My loss, seriously.

Conrats on your 2nd place.

Chuck Z

30 year old Porsches with less than 1,500 miles aren't.....

bronto

I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be a class for you Chuck. I'd be the LAST person to suggest you start using Kermit to go get groceries. There should be a class in which fits you. I'm just suggesting that this is what their thinking might have been. If Kermit or similar examples were eligible to win "preservation", then where would that leave the guys that drive theirs every weekend and toil monthly to keep it in concours shape? And getting out and driving is what the PCA is all about, isn't it? Basically, if Kermit would win then they'd be punishing the others for doing what PCA's mission is.

So there should be an "open" class for Kermit, and eligible for overall winner. The Preservation class is appropriate for those that it targets. I think part of the problem is how they label these classes. "Preservation" to me sounds more like Kermit than my car. OTOH, I've had people label my car a "survivor", which I think suggests it's been abused. The class I entered in Orange County was "Unrestored", which I think was appropriate for my car, but not for Kermit since "Unrestored" (I think) implies that it could use some restoration. So if I were the one making the rules and classes, I would have a "Preservation" class for Kermit, and an "Unrestored" class for ones like mine. Unrestored would be reserved for cars that are actually driven often. Preservation would be for those that are not.

Chuck Z

I’ll have to respectfully disagree. I’ve been involved with PCA for almost 20 years and I don’t ever recall PCA’s mission being stated as such. Concours is as much of part of PCA as DE, rally, social events and tours. Perhaps a less popular event with smaller numbers of participants but nonetheless just as much a part. The very implication of a “concours” level automobile rules out most high mileage cars, regardless of marque. The term “survivor” to me says that it is an original that has not been restored. Not necessarily a survivor with low miles but any car that has not been touched in terms of restoration. Kermit is definitely a survivor. Additionally, the “Unrestored” class is where Kermit would reside just like it should reside in a “Preservation” class. All original paint, all original interior and even original wheels and tires make in “unrestored” or “preserved” in my book. I guess the problem I have with all of this is; an event called Concours d’Elegance implies that this is an event where you might find the “cream of the crop” when it comes to Porsche cars, old or new. There absolutely needs to be something done to address this issue or pretty soon the only cars that will show up are going to be high mileage, less than perfect Porsches.

I also realize that you cannot please everyone and PCR’s for Concours events were redone and eliminated the “Manhattan” trophy b/c wealthy PCA’ers were buying brand new cars, having them disassembled, cleaned, put back together then shipped to Parade in hermetically sealed trailers then rolled onto the show field with saran wrap around their tires. There needs to be a happy medium reached between those days and the current PCR’s. Where we are today is definitely not it.