nsantolick

Hi all;

Okay, I'm still waiting to get my 1989 S4 "on the road..." I haven't driven it since the first day it arrived. Still reading obsessively. Getting tired...

The car is like new, inside and out. The age of the timing belt is in question, so I am just going to change it out, and all that goes with a proper job.

77 thousand miles on the car. A Porsche dealer had serviced it in January 2004 and shows records of TWICE adjusting the belt because of "fluttering..."

I discharged the battery, just sitting in it, every night, playing some music and pretending to drive it. Rrrrrooooommm. Squeel... "See ya Ricer..." That sort of stuff.

Time came to move it to where I'll do the belt. I started it and listened carefully. I hear a light "fluttering" myself. Now, I've never really been near any other 928's. Went to the Porsche Club local meeting and there weren't any 928's there either.

I understand that there should be NO fluttering noises whatsoever. Is this true?

Most vendors tell me, at most, to just rebuild the factory tensioner. I've read a lot about the porkensioner, but am still undecided. It is a 32 valve engine, hence, grenade in the case of malfunctioning of the timing belt system.

The present and past "fluttering" issues scare me a bit. I'd like to know, since a factory dealer already "fixed" it twice, and I hear it again, what else should I pay extra close attention to? What about the porkensioner? Yay? Nay???

Is an "X-Pipe" going to provide NOTICABLE performance gains? Just how loud would a otherwise stock exhause be with the x-pipe if I leave on the rear muffler? What about an x-pipe AND a RMB??? I'm not trying to make it louder. But if there is an extra kick in the pants with some exhaust stuff, I'm prone to going for it. Sucks that I've only "heard" them on youtube, so it's hard to decide.

I used to have a 97 Mustang Cobra with a Y Pipe or something. Whatever it was, it eliminated the SIX cats. I didn't notice much of a difference aside from sound, and perhaps a small gain at high rpms...

Getting anxious to finally decide what I'm ordering, and from who, etc. Any advice is quite appreciated...





Nick - Hazleton, Pennsylvania

pcar928fan

I bet that what you are hearing is NOTHING out of the normal. I would think if you are actually getting some sort of belt flutter (and I think you would be the FIRST to get that w/ a good belt and tensioner) you would also be getting a belt tension warning light... I would freaking drive the car...I would not even be able to restrain myself.

As for mod... X-pipe and Rear Muffler Bypass and be done with it. I think you WILL feel the difference if you are sensitive to that sort of thing. If nothing else it will sure make it sound good!

BTW, I tell anyone looking for a 928 that if they can't or won't buy a GTS then the next car to look at is the '89's and then the '88's... I think those are THE BEST bang for the buck. If they are going to take the car to the track (DE's, Auto-X, whatever) and get even a bit serious about it, I tell them to STAY AWAY from '90/'91 GT's... Way to many engine failures for some reason on those cars... I have friends that are really fast that have driven thousands of miles in '88 S4 5spds and early 5 spd cars with no problems at all and some of those same people have grenaded 90/91 GT's in short order doing exactly the same tracks and lap times!

Good luck w/ your car. Get the damn belt done and go driving for godsake!

YMMV!

nsantolick

It's been incredibly hard to restrain myself. Even the first day drive was done with fear of the dam belt, so I just barely touched the gas, hardly making it to 3000rpm at most. I think I may make up for it all though. lol

That "fluttering" I heard was very mild. I hadn't noticed it the first day. Needed to get really close to the engine to hear it, but with paranoia and never having heard a 928, it spooked me a bit.






Nick - Hazleton, Pennsylvania

rixter

I see a pattern here, your brain should tell you the same thing......
don't take it to the dealer
most dealers don't see 928s, much less have anyone in the service dept who's done any amount of work on one
get the manuals, get the parts, do the tb/wp.... it's not that difficult if you're moderately competent with hand tools and can follow written instructions
http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/tbelt.html

and welcome to the club, let's see some pics!

Leon Speed

Hehe..we all do that. You'll fit right in with the rest of the looneys here.


Get the belt replaced, maybe the water pump and drive it! Later you can decide what mods you need, er.. want.

pcar928fan

I seriously have no idea what a "belt flutter" would sound like. There are a LOT of noises under the hood of a 928, and seriously I don't think you could pick something like that out... Not from the T-belt anyway (unless it was a REALLY big problem; and again I submit if that was the case it would be setting off the T-belt warning light...if that sensor is working)...

YMMV!

Jim bailey - 928 International

Be sure to understand the why of 45 degree on the crank and make extra marks on the cam gears at 45 degrees BEFORE taking off the belt.... makes life so much easier.

WICruiser

Welcome to the group.

I know your concern. When I got my car the engine was a total unknown (PO information I never trust) so as soon as I confrimed that it would run, good oil pressure, reasonable compression, etc. the first thing I did was the TB/WP.

In retrospec I should have also checked thrust bearing / crank end play because mine is an auto (what is yours?). In my case the end play was good and so the fact that I had already done the TP/WP was not a wasted effort.

There are a lot of good people here that can help you through anything that you might run into so read, do the work yourself, and enjoy!

nsantolick

It's an automatic. What? Did Porsche make these with manual transmissions??? lol

I'd have preferred a 5 speed, I'd think, but was going more for color/condition/deal. The car really looks like new, inside and out, and neither myself nor the dealer did anything to it yet.

I'll definitely do the work myself. Just need to decide on the porkensioner and which parts place to order through. Can't wait...





Nick - Hazleton, Pennsylvania

Leon Speed

Good call. Today on the German board there was another TBF... a GTS

pcar928fan

^^^^^
OUCH!

nsantolick

^^ Okay, I was ALREADY paranoid enough.


So, if I put on a new belt, waterpump, rebuild the tensioner, replace "whatever" bearings, check/retension the flex plate, inspect all rubber, assuming that there isn't anything mechanically wrong, can I then proceed to beat the crap out of it on the backroads/turnpikes late at night/autocross-track events?



Nick - Hazleton, Pennsylvania

WICruiser

YES - once you have done these (including the rubber fuel lines) go ahead and run it like it was meant to be run - fast and hard. These cars really like being pushed more than pampered.

The group here has seen to many cases where cutting corners has resulted in a really bad experience so we tend to be paranoid about cars that nobody knows.

Call one of the mjor parts suppliers and get your TB/WP parts on order - they can provide you the complete list (including the ones you would not think about). While those are coming your way get it up off the ground (secure) and relieve the thrust plate / check end play on the crank.

The TB/WP is a lot of pieces and parts but nothing hard and there are great write ups here on what you need to do.

Once you get that done check over the water hoses - consider replacing all of the rubber fuel lines (Roger at 928sRus) has a complete fuel line replacement kit.

Then drive it and send pics.

nsantolick

This whole getting it up in the air thing is actually another "issue" I'm being paranoid about. I'll soon have a decent floor, if not "pit", but right now, I work outside on a very old asphalt cracked, random bits of grass, dirt kind of "parking lot."

The idea of jackstands ALWAYS has frightened me in general. I normally use ramps, sometimes using jacks to put a "dead" car on ramps. I've even set up ramps on all 4 wheels with past car work.

A few months ago, I jacked up the rear of a rust-free 1983 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel, using a jack to get each of the rear wheels on ramps. Maybe it was ALREADY there, but in that case, I found a visually spreading while i watch it type crack developing/spreading on the rear lower trailing arm.

I assume my technique was wrong - that one shouldn't "strain" a car like that? The mercedes parts place I use told me they see a lot of those due to roadsalt related internal rusting. I'm not certain.

Anyway, with a 928, should I be able to do that? That is, to use a jack to put one wheel at a time on metal ramps? Would that overstress the suspension?

As far as jackstands go, is a car REALLY safe, assuming a nice flat & level concrete floor? I see someone offering a lift rod thingie that uses a jack to raise a whole side of a car, but ultimately, the car is on jackstands. I hear stories all the time about people being crushed when their car falls on them.

Sure, a real lift is the best, but at home, until I get one maybe someday, lol, what's the safest way to "get under" my car? (fairly level but cracked ancient dirt/asphalt mix with crap growing out of it hear and there and such?)

If a car is on jackstands, can it be "pushed over" if one tried? Fat guy falling into it by accident proof???


Sorry if I sound like a wussie...





Nick - Hazleton, Pennsylvania

nsantolick

Perhaps jackstands stability can be enhanced by putting plywood under each???




Nick - Hazleton, Pennsylvania