Notices
928 Forum 1978-1995
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: 928 Specialists

Engine installed - no start

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old May 6, 2008 | 05:58 PM
  #16  
Bill Ball's Avatar
Bill Ball
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 18,648
Likes: 52
From: Buckeye, AZ
Default

You've got a 928 expert helping you there! Best guess is still flooding based on the wet plugs. I've seen it happen once in a car on start-up after a long rest.
Reply
Old May 6, 2008 | 05:59 PM
  #17  
Aatos's Avatar
Aatos
Thread Starter
Racer
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 1
From: Suomi
Default

I cheated a bit and placed the sprocket on the same position as the old one.
Reply
Old May 6, 2008 | 06:01 PM
  #18  
Aatos's Avatar
Aatos
Thread Starter
Racer
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 1
From: Suomi
Default

Bill, after the car didn't start yesterday, I pulled the old plugs for the night and inserted completely new plugs today. There was no change.
Reply
Old May 6, 2008 | 06:14 PM
  #19  
AO's Avatar
AO
Supercharged
Rennlist Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 18,926
Likes: 88
From: Back in Michigan - Full time!
Default

The only other thing (besides cam timing) that I can think of is the firing order. Do you have your plug wires going to the right places? I accidentally reversed two wires on mine after the re-build. It ran, but didn't want to start easily.
Reply
Old May 6, 2008 | 07:36 PM
  #20  
Bill Ball's Avatar
Bill Ball
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 18,648
Likes: 52
From: Buckeye, AZ
Default

Originally Posted by Aatos
Bill, after the car didn't start yesterday, I pulled the old plugs for the night and inserted completely new plugs today. There was no change.
The cylinders need to dry out as well. After you try again for a while, pull a plug and see if it is wet again. Did the injectors come with the new engine?

Last edited by Bill Ball; May 8, 2008 at 12:55 PM.
Reply
Old May 8, 2008 | 12:47 PM
  #21  
Aatos's Avatar
Aatos
Thread Starter
Racer
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 1
From: Suomi
Default

I ventured in the garage today, the plan being to check the timing.

Turned the engine to TDC by hand:



Something odd was showing from the passenger breather hole, so I removed the cover and found this:







At this point I called it a day and retired home to appreciate the finer points of cold beer.


Reply
Old May 8, 2008 | 01:08 PM
  #22  
Bill Ball's Avatar
Bill Ball
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 18,648
Likes: 52
From: Buckeye, AZ
Default

Well, obviously the belt is BAD. The timing is WAY off. You appear to be on TDC for cyl number 6. So, the cam gear is actually 180 degrees from where it would be at TDC for cyl 1 (one more crank revolution). So, you are probably way advanced (about 45 cam degrees). See that large notch on the front of the cam gear? It is supposed to be up in front of the V-groove in the plate behind the gear. There is a tiny V-groove on the back edge of the gear that lines up with the leading edge of the large front side notch. That should line up with the V-groove on the plate behind the gear.

You need to do a timing belt job with correct timing and then check compression to see if there is valve damage. Also, you need to identify what cut the belt before you install the new belt. Hopefully somebody like Villhuer will help you.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
badtiming.JPG (95.5 KB, 135 views)

Last edited by Bill Ball; May 8, 2008 at 02:02 PM.
Reply
Old May 8, 2008 | 02:47 PM
  #23  
AO's Avatar
AO
Supercharged
Rennlist Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 18,926
Likes: 88
From: Back in Michigan - Full time!
Default

Ummm... What Bill said x1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!
Reply
Old May 8, 2008 | 04:41 PM
  #24  
Aatos's Avatar
Aatos
Thread Starter
Racer
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 1
From: Suomi
Default

Bill, your I concur with your diagnosis 100%, that big jump in timing means almost certain damage to valves though. I'll redo the timing and check the compression over the weekend. "Fortunately" I do have a spare set of 32 valves .
Reply
Old May 8, 2008 | 04:53 PM
  #25  
Jim bailey - 928 International's Avatar
Jim bailey - 928 International
Addict
Rennlist Member

Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 11,542
Likes: 4
From: Anaheim California
Default

The bigger question is WHY ???? Heinrich got 40 miles with his belt ......this one NEVER ran !! it came apart just cranking on the starter motor.
Reply
Old May 8, 2008 | 05:17 PM
  #26  
Mrmerlin's Avatar
Mrmerlin
Team Owner
20 Year Member
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 31,170
Likes: 4,165
From: Philly PA
Default

so turn the crank to 45 deg this is confirmed when the keyway is pointing at 3 O clock.(while standing in front of and facing the motor)

Find out what caused the belt to be damaged and fix this.
Fit a new belt, do a compression test, if you have compression fit the plugs and try to start the car
Reply
Old May 11, 2008 | 05:04 PM
  #27  
Aatos's Avatar
Aatos
Thread Starter
Racer
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 1
From: Suomi
Default

Small update.

The belt was torn because the crank collar was installed the wrong way and the timing was off because it was incorrectly set at 45 instead of 0. Most likely both heads have valve damage as you can't rotate the engine with wrench anymore.

As a bonus, upon closer inspection one of the spare heads (with working valves) I have has been ruined with some sort of an attempt of porting the intake channels. Sometimes I wish that learning wasn't so expensive.
Reply
Old May 11, 2008 | 05:10 PM
  #28  
Bill Ball's Avatar
Bill Ball
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 18,648
Likes: 52
From: Buckeye, AZ
Default

You have our sincere sympathy. I'm going to agree with you that you have some bent/stuck valves. Cheapest solution is to by a good used motor out of a wreck, commonly sold for about US$3500.
Reply
Old May 11, 2008 | 05:47 PM
  #29  
David L. Lutz's Avatar
David L. Lutz
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: Santa Rosa Beach, FL
Default

Heres a couple engines (1987)on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...111029761&rd=1

Anybody deal with these people before?
Reply
Old May 11, 2008 | 05:49 PM
  #30  
Aatos's Avatar
Aatos
Thread Starter
Racer
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 1
From: Suomi
Default

Thanks for the suggestions but I'm sticking with what I have (2 engines with different problems). Just a lot of wrenching to do.
Reply



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 11:44 AM.