Need some historical 928 ABS info......
07-25-2001, 10:19 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Need some historical 928 ABS info......
I don't know if this a Concours Question or not. And I'll start with a little story.
Here goes; When the taxpayers sent me to Nellingen a 'Burb' of Stuttgart in the 1983/1986 time-frame (yes Shark worshipers,
I was in the Porsche Holy Land and made the Pilgramage to Mecca (Zuffenhausen)just minutes away more than a few times.
It was there that my LUST for the 928 began.
Enter: Uhle who was a stout-hearted, beer quaffing, German male. Uhle had one of those slit your wrist boring jobs you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. What could be worse than digging impacted feces out of a geezers butt at the Happy Hollow Old Folks Home you ask? Some of you may have guessed... that's right he drove mules for Mercedes. One day Uhle showed up in a yellow 4 door 380 series(?)this had to be 84/85.
It had all the bells and whistles - headlamp washers AND wipers on& on& on ... But lo and behold Uhle had a secret that could only be pried from his lips with Stuttgarter Hofbrou und lots of it.
His new mule was equipped with the early Merc. ABS. It was, thouroughly, tested on post that night and the M.P. 'K' cars were absolutely helpless - non existant acceleration and even worse braking -.
Enter: Axel Prall, Axel was married to the Daughter of Herr und Frau Putz their two families plus mine lived in the same house in Groetzingen at the outskirts of Stuttgart. Axel designed and fabricated oil coolers, mounts and vents for the Porsche sponsered RACE CARS. Jeez! Another drudge job. WE talked, he was interested, said that Porsche had done some work on ABS but was nowhere near to installing them on a passenger car.
My Question is - finally - When did the 928 series start leaving Zuffenhausen with ABS?
I keep seeing ads (E-BAY right now) for early 80's Sharks WITH ABS that was still proprietary to Merc. who didn't offer ABS in their own cars until what, 85 ? I realize that with some bucks, a pile of parts plus a few bleeding knuckles you can install ABS on early Sharks. On the other hand I don't believe anyone would upgrade the brakes to ABS and leave every thing else stock.
I have seen this type of salesmanship before
some are suffering from ignorance others are flat out lying. And on a similar note the hysterically, funny Odometer readings. 928 odometers are infamous for crapping out. Hell, according to mine I only put 57 miles on Pattycakes on the run from San Diego to Midland, Texas. I'm not a do gooder by nature, but it seem that there should be a way to clean up the volume sales on Ebay and the like when it comes to ridiculously low milage and non existant equipment. Yeah, buyer beware and all that but, even guy's like me who have loved the 928's since they published the first picture are neophytes till we actually own one.
Carfax is a joke! And people do consider mileage and options( real or not) when they purchase a used car. Crap! Long winded and disjointed again... Anyhow info on the ABS would be appriciated, opinions on the rest welcome.
John, 82' Weissach, Auto. Pattycakes sans ABS
Here goes; When the taxpayers sent me to Nellingen a 'Burb' of Stuttgart in the 1983/1986 time-frame (yes Shark worshipers,
I was in the Porsche Holy Land and made the Pilgramage to Mecca (Zuffenhausen)just minutes away more than a few times.
It was there that my LUST for the 928 began.
Enter: Uhle who was a stout-hearted, beer quaffing, German male. Uhle had one of those slit your wrist boring jobs you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. What could be worse than digging impacted feces out of a geezers butt at the Happy Hollow Old Folks Home you ask? Some of you may have guessed... that's right he drove mules for Mercedes. One day Uhle showed up in a yellow 4 door 380 series(?)this had to be 84/85.
It had all the bells and whistles - headlamp washers AND wipers on& on& on ... But lo and behold Uhle had a secret that could only be pried from his lips with Stuttgarter Hofbrou und lots of it.
His new mule was equipped with the early Merc. ABS. It was, thouroughly, tested on post that night and the M.P. 'K' cars were absolutely helpless - non existant acceleration and even worse braking -.
Enter: Axel Prall, Axel was married to the Daughter of Herr und Frau Putz their two families plus mine lived in the same house in Groetzingen at the outskirts of Stuttgart. Axel designed and fabricated oil coolers, mounts and vents for the Porsche sponsered RACE CARS. Jeez! Another drudge job. WE talked, he was interested, said that Porsche had done some work on ABS but was nowhere near to installing them on a passenger car.
My Question is - finally - When did the 928 series start leaving Zuffenhausen with ABS?
I keep seeing ads (E-BAY right now) for early 80's Sharks WITH ABS that was still proprietary to Merc. who didn't offer ABS in their own cars until what, 85 ? I realize that with some bucks, a pile of parts plus a few bleeding knuckles you can install ABS on early Sharks. On the other hand I don't believe anyone would upgrade the brakes to ABS and leave every thing else stock.
I have seen this type of salesmanship before
some are suffering from ignorance others are flat out lying. And on a similar note the hysterically, funny Odometer readings. 928 odometers are infamous for crapping out. Hell, according to mine I only put 57 miles on Pattycakes on the run from San Diego to Midland, Texas. I'm not a do gooder by nature, but it seem that there should be a way to clean up the volume sales on Ebay and the like when it comes to ridiculously low milage and non existant equipment. Yeah, buyer beware and all that but, even guy's like me who have loved the 928's since they published the first picture are neophytes till we actually own one.
Carfax is a joke! And people do consider mileage and options( real or not) when they purchase a used car. Crap! Long winded and disjointed again... Anyhow info on the ABS would be appriciated, opinions on the rest welcome.
John, 82' Weissach, Auto. Pattycakes sans ABS
07-26-2001, 10:43 AM
#2
John,
The first ABS equiped Mercedes rolled off the assembely line in 1978. Source: About Safety, official Mercedes-Benz showroom booklet. They became standard equipment on all S class models in 1985.
Jim Nowak
The first ABS equiped Mercedes rolled off the assembely line in 1978. Source: About Safety, official Mercedes-Benz showroom booklet. They became standard equipment on all S class models in 1985.
Jim Nowak
07-27-2001, 03:53 AM
#5
USMarine
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ABS was offered as an option for US models in 1985.
Just about EVERYTHING standard on the 85S fromthe brochure it reads:
The following is a complete listing of the options and accessories available for the Porsche 928S:
-Limited Slip Differential
-Leather or Cloth Sport Seats
-All leatheror special interiors
-Protective side molding
For other comfort and appearence items, ask your Porsche salesperson
Page 15 talks about the brakes and the state-of-the-art-technology built into them. No mention of ABS as an option.
However, on page 27 of the catalog it does indicate that "The Porsche 928S is prepared at the factory for installation of a telephone system...
An option they forget to mention,,,
possibly. Maybe the same was true of ABS brakes during 1985. Anything is possible i suppose. I have never seen an ABS equipped 85 though. Perhaps at the time they printed these brochure it was not an option but added later in production.
07-27-2001, 04:26 AM
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John, I found out the following when fitting big reds on FAT BULLY:
Up to '83, Euro spec 928's came with compensators and diagonal brakes, which was Porsche's first stab at a sort of ABS system.
The compensators regulated pressure between the master silinder and callipers so that when you stomp the pedal, the compensators would actually release the pressure at the calliper and so prevent the wheel from locking to a degree.
A diagonal braking design was used in conjunction with compensators. There are two chambers in the master silinder. One chamber feeds the left front and right rear and the other chamber the right front and left rear. This aided straight line braking in the event of loss of traction.
From '84 onwards the compensators remained, but diagonal braking was discontinued and from '85 a dinkum ABS system was offered as an option.
Just my 2 cents worth...
Up to '83, Euro spec 928's came with compensators and diagonal brakes, which was Porsche's first stab at a sort of ABS system.
The compensators regulated pressure between the master silinder and callipers so that when you stomp the pedal, the compensators would actually release the pressure at the calliper and so prevent the wheel from locking to a degree.
A diagonal braking design was used in conjunction with compensators. There are two chambers in the master silinder. One chamber feeds the left front and right rear and the other chamber the right front and left rear. This aided straight line braking in the event of loss of traction.
From '84 onwards the compensators remained, but diagonal braking was discontinued and from '85 a dinkum ABS system was offered as an option.
Just my 2 cents worth...
07-27-2001, 06:54 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
Maniac, Pat, Pete W., Ed R., Jim N,.
Thanks, all of you.
And my Apologies as to my 84/85 timeline.
My sawed of Texan of a wife has corrected me once again!
We were both enlisted Army types. She dug out my 'I was there' Garmish/Partkirchen
Certification/Diploma and badges...which qualified me to do anything on ski's with the exception of doing the black Mogul run backwards. In fact, by 84' the Army had tranferred my entire Blackhawk unit-48th Aviation Company, The Blue Stars - to Weisbaden. Way north of Stuttgart and resulted in a Army induced 2 year, family separation. I'd like to say this was an old age memory loss but to be brutally honest you could float an aircraft carrier in all the brew I drank during my family seperation.
Having said that every thing else in my diatribe was correct.
I love this site, the bunch of you added a bunch of collective knowledge to my personal archives and I'm sure somewhere down the line there will be a good use for it.
If every thing I've read about the S-4 & GT(S)brakes is true when I buy my 2nd 928 I will definitly upgrade. I want to keep Pattycakes pretty close to stock. And If the truth be told in the last week I have HAD TO USE both the KICKDOWN - Is that where "Bawaaaah" comes from ?- when an 18 wheeler locked up his brakes on a crowded off ramp and came smoking toward me! And the brakes got their first REVERSE ENGINES, ALL STOP, THROW OUT THE ANCHOR use when a pile up occurred at an intersection. Pattycakes Hauled ***- zero hesitation- in the first situation making that Bawaaah sound while processing a goodly amount of the atmosphere And she she stopped with no fade, pulling, screeching, nor sliding. I was truly impressed with her responsiveness in both situations. Thank you Porsche engineers where ever you are!
Again, thanks guy's.
John S. 82' Weissach, Auto., 'Pattycakes'
Thanks, all of you.
And my Apologies as to my 84/85 timeline.
My sawed of Texan of a wife has corrected me once again!
We were both enlisted Army types. She dug out my 'I was there' Garmish/Partkirchen
Certification/Diploma and badges...which qualified me to do anything on ski's with the exception of doing the black Mogul run backwards. In fact, by 84' the Army had tranferred my entire Blackhawk unit-48th Aviation Company, The Blue Stars - to Weisbaden. Way north of Stuttgart and resulted in a Army induced 2 year, family separation. I'd like to say this was an old age memory loss but to be brutally honest you could float an aircraft carrier in all the brew I drank during my family seperation.
Having said that every thing else in my diatribe was correct.
I love this site, the bunch of you added a bunch of collective knowledge to my personal archives and I'm sure somewhere down the line there will be a good use for it.
If every thing I've read about the S-4 & GT(S)brakes is true when I buy my 2nd 928 I will definitly upgrade. I want to keep Pattycakes pretty close to stock. And If the truth be told in the last week I have HAD TO USE both the KICKDOWN - Is that where "Bawaaaah" comes from ?- when an 18 wheeler locked up his brakes on a crowded off ramp and came smoking toward me! And the brakes got their first REVERSE ENGINES, ALL STOP, THROW OUT THE ANCHOR use when a pile up occurred at an intersection. Pattycakes Hauled ***- zero hesitation- in the first situation making that Bawaaah sound while processing a goodly amount of the atmosphere And she she stopped with no fade, pulling, screeching, nor sliding. I was truly impressed with her responsiveness in both situations. Thank you Porsche engineers where ever you are!
Again, thanks guy's.
John S. 82' Weissach, Auto., 'Pattycakes'
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07-27-2001, 08:32 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
Originally posted by PRDATR:
<STRONG>
Hmmmm, Ed perusing my 1985 Porsche 928 (only)Brochure and it does not list ABS as an option. I think that may have first appeared as an option on the 86.5 in the US
Just about EVERYTHING standard on the 85S fromthe brochure it reads:
The following is a complete listing of the options and accessories available for the Porsche 928S:
-Limited Slip Differential
-Leather or Cloth Sport Seats
-All leatheror special interiors
-Protective side molding
For other comfort and appearence items, ask your Porsche salesperson
Page 15 talks about the brakes and the state-of-the-art-technology built into them. No mention of ABS as an option.
However, on page 27 of the catalog it does indicate that "The Porsche 928S is prepared at the factory for installation of a telephone system...
An option they forget to mention,,,
possibly. Maybe the same was true of ABS brakes during 1985. Anything is possible i suppose. I have never seen an ABS equipped 85 though. Perhaps at the time they printed these brochure it was not an option but added later in production.</STRONG>
<STRONG>
Hmmmm, Ed perusing my 1985 Porsche 928 (only)Brochure and it does not list ABS as an option. I think that may have first appeared as an option on the 86.5 in the US
Just about EVERYTHING standard on the 85S fromthe brochure it reads:
The following is a complete listing of the options and accessories available for the Porsche 928S:
-Limited Slip Differential
-Leather or Cloth Sport Seats
-All leatheror special interiors
-Protective side molding
For other comfort and appearence items, ask your Porsche salesperson
Page 15 talks about the brakes and the state-of-the-art-technology built into them. No mention of ABS as an option.
However, on page 27 of the catalog it does indicate that "The Porsche 928S is prepared at the factory for installation of a telephone system...
An option they forget to mention,,,
possibly. Maybe the same was true of ABS brakes during 1985. Anything is possible i suppose. I have never seen an ABS equipped 85 though. Perhaps at the time they printed these brochure it was not an option but added later in production.</STRONG>
I have seen it mentioned as an option for 1985 928s in a Porsche brochure and in a Panorama article. You might want to call PCNA to verify. YMMV.
07-27-2001, 05:32 PM
#9
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Phil Tong's site has a blurb on the ABS availability under the models section. Read through the 928S portion....he indicates standard equipment in '86 if I remember correctly.
07-27-2001, 06:03 PM
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ABS was not available in the US before '86 due to liability concerns. In '86 it was standard even before the '86.5 upgrade. Porsche waited until it became more widespread with other manufacturers. It was available prior to '86 in other markets but I'm not sure how far back. I think maybe only '85 in other markets but don't quote me on that.
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