Sab

After getting my car back from the shop, where it had been for six weeks getting a new engine (used), my drive shaft makes a horrible rattling noise when in idle.

Since the engine story was a major problem and it looks like the new engine is running well and also looks like this time around they did not leave any sand in my engine, I am not going anywhere near this shop again. I would rather attempt to do it myself, probably less of a risk expiriencing another major setback.

I took a close look at things from underneath and it looks like the rattling noise comes from either the end of the drive shaft or the front of the tranni (AT). I could not notice anything loose in that general area. The noise seems to disapear under load and is extremely noticeable when the car does not idle right. So it is the loudest when cold and idling a bit rough and makes a real loud short rattle when I turn of the engine. When the car is warmed up it idles real steady at about 650 and the noise is only audible on the smallest change in rpm at idle.

I am almost convinced that the shop busted something when they put the engine back in. I never heared the noise before and they really messed up the rest of the car as well... My interior changed from burgundy to black (grease from the shop floor...), dents, scratches... What could they have done?

If it wasn't them, what else could this be?
Drive shaft bearing? But I would assume with a bearing that bad I would feel a noticeable vibration.

Thanks,
Sab.
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

Jim Dawson

Sab,

It sounds like you need a new torque tube.

My 89S4 had the same issue, loud rattling at idle which fades away as speed increases. The bearings inside eventually wear out and thus produce the noise. This seems to be a 100,000 mile problem.

The part is $495.00 rebuilt, exchange from 928 International, (800) 634-6117. You may find it elsewhere for less. The labor is about $500.00 as they have to drop the rear suspension and transmission to get to the tube. My new tube has three bearings so hopefully it will hold up better than the old two bearing unit originally installed in the automatic cars.

Be sure to replace the torque converter bearings (if an automatic) while you're at it. They are an extra $26.00, worth it as you will have the labor charge all over again if the old ones fail.

Others have done the job but you need access to a lift and lots of free time. It was worth the labor charge knowing it was done right.

Hope this helps.

Jim
89S4 Auto, Guards Red

Sab

Thanks Jim,

that sounds like my problem.
If I plan on doing this or getting it done, what other parts should be looked at or replaced while I have the transmission out?
Anything on the drive shaft?
Thanks,
Sab. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Jim Dawson

Sab,

That should do it for the driveshaft. Just make sure you install the three bearing unit and replace the torque converter bearings. Have the flywheel and starter inspected, they are easy to get to while the torque tube is out. Mine were both fine at 100K miles plus.

If your transmission needs a fluid and filter change now would be a good time. Also any fluid leaks are an easy fix while it's out of the car.
The transmission itself should be good for 200K miles, so I've been told.

Jim
89S4 Auto, Guards Red

Ketchmi

I am just finishing a TT rebuild on my 86.5 auto and will be glad to give you any information you may need. The torque tube is easily rebuildable and the bearings for the TT and the torque converter are a common style and easily obtainable from a local supplier for considerably less than $26.50. The torque tube bearings are a part #6006 and the converter bearings are a #6008. You can get various styles of bearings in those sizes, I am going to the sealed bearings versus the shielded that were installed by the factory. They are supposed to be much better at handling heat and engine speeds, so should last even longer. My car has over 130k on it and I really don't want to do this again for another 100k. I will be writing up the procedure and requirements later but will answer any questions you may have. I would also replace the seal and o-ring on the transmission pump while it's easily accessible. I am also having the cooling lines rebuilt, mine were weeping at the joints. They hadn't actually started dripping, but were wet.
Good Luck, it's a lot of fun! Dave <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Ketchmi

Something else I just thought of. You can pull off the cover plate underneath the flywheel/ring gear. They may not have fully tightened the 6 bolts on the adapter from the shaft to the flywheel. It may also need to be properly clearanced. If it is in a bind, applying pressure either forward or back, this could cause any torque tube problems or wear to be exaggerated. (It would not be any good for the thrust bearing either!) Dave <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Sab

Thanks Dave,
this makes me wonder, since they where asked to retighten the flywheel. The previous owner of my new engine specifically told them and myself that the flywheel was off and needs to be retightened.
So I guess I could be already heading for a thrustbearing failure...
I will check that right away.
regards,
Sab.

Mike Schmidt

Several different sources for rattling noises from the torque tube area have come up in the past. Torque tube bearings going bad, loose flywheel bolts, bad torque converter bearings, loose rear pinch bolts, or pressure from the front hub on the drive shaft being too far forwards. If you didn't have the noise before the new engine was put in, I'd suspect that they did something wrong at the front end of the drive shaft when putting the engine in. The first things I'd check would be to make sure the flywheel bolts are tight, and then loosen and retighten the pinch bolt that tightens the clamp on the splines at the front of the drive shaft. There's some information on this stuff at <a href="http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/nichols/tip598.htm" target="_blank">http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/nichols/tip598.htm</a> and at <a href="http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/nichols/tip760.htm" target="_blank">http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/nichols/tip760.htm</a>

Mike Schmidt

[quote]Originally posted by Ketchmi:
<strong>I am just finishing a TT rebuild on my 86.5 auto and will be glad to give you any information you may need. I will be writing up the procedure and requirements later but will answer any questions you may have. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Be sure and keep us updated when you have the procedure documented.

kalbri

I notice it's been said that TT replacement is a 100k wear item? Has this generally been so for most people here? Has anyone had to replace the tube at considerable less mileage than that?

Sab

Hello Dave,
thanks for the info, I finally cought on to the correct terminology for all the parts ... Sorry for my ignorance. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
I would really like to get my hands on the documentation regarding the procedure and requirements.
Did you have a lift to get this done or is it possible to do it in my garage with a couple of jacks?
regards,
Sab <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Ketchmi

I actually did it in my garage with 4 jackstands. It's not easy but I don't think it's much different than using a hoist. You will need access to a press (Harbor Freight 12 ton $99) a grinder and a vise. Other than that, normal handtools and a floor jack are all you need. (Maybe a friend to help remove and reinstall the trans & TT.) You can e-mail me directly at ketchmi@hotmail if you need more info. Dave <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />