Notices
928 Forum 1978-1995
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: 928 Specialists

DFW engine tech session suggestion

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 28, 2008 | 12:08 AM
  #31  
David L. Lutz's Avatar
David L. Lutz
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: Santa Rosa Beach, FL
Default

Great guys thanks. Funny you mention the expander, I just bought that exact tool yesterday and have been practicing with the old rings.

The pistons are nice and clean now, lands are free of any carbon.
The berrymans Chem. dip did the trick. It really only took about 20 min. in the cleaner and some brush work.

I'll try and post a pic tomorrow.
Reply
Old Mar 28, 2008 | 02:51 PM
  #32  
docmirror's Avatar
docmirror
Thread Starter
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,886
Likes: 151
From: Rep of Texas, N NM, Rockies, SoCal
Default

Well, having a little trouble finding Locktite 574. Ogburn truck is the only place that has it, so I gotta go pick it up tomorrow am. The rest of the stuff is a go, so be there or be square, or be both. I expect no drinking until the pan is on tomorrow. Of course, my expectations are rarely, almost never met.....
Reply
Old Mar 28, 2008 | 05:20 PM
  #33  
BPG_Austin's Avatar
BPG_Austin
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 970
Likes: 2
From: Austin, TX
Default

Doc and the DFW gang, looks like I'll be working tomorrow. Sorry I can't make it, I was looking forward to hanging out and watching the engine build. Best of luck Doc, post some pictures, enjoy a beer or two when you're done.

Ben
Reply
Old Mar 29, 2008 | 11:14 AM
  #34  
docmirror's Avatar
docmirror
Thread Starter
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,886
Likes: 151
From: Rep of Texas, N NM, Rockies, SoCal
Default

Oops, excuse me. I seem to have bumped into you. Pardons.
Reply
Old Mar 29, 2008 | 11:59 AM
  #35  
ROG100's Avatar
ROG100
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

20 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,943
Likes: 1,046
From: Double Oak, TX
Default

Well I'm here where is everyone else? 8>)
__________________

Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission? George Layton March 2014

928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."






Reply
Old Mar 29, 2008 | 01:43 PM
  #36  
the flyin' scotsman's Avatar
the flyin' scotsman
Rennlist Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,717
Likes: 58
From: Southern Alberta, Canada
Default

i'm there in spirit Roger; its snowing AGAIN!!!! enough already.
Reply
Old Mar 29, 2008 | 04:59 PM
  #37  
Brad W's Avatar
Brad W
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 881
Likes: 1
From: Texas
Default

I was there at 10:00 and Roger and I did a mini Tech session on a 16 valver. Now back home with the honey dooooooos
Reply
Old Mar 30, 2008 | 12:49 AM
  #38  
pscottjr's Avatar
pscottjr
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
Default

Well........ I would have come for a tech session on a 16v. Doc, Roger Sean, Ryan???? Pictures?

Tell us how far along did we get with Doc's engine?
Reply
Old Mar 30, 2008 | 01:25 AM
  #39  
docmirror's Avatar
docmirror
Thread Starter
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,886
Likes: 151
From: Rep of Texas, N NM, Rockies, SoCal
Default

I got the lower end together. We had a delay caused by a vendor that goofed me up on the sealant. I've got pis but can't put them up right now. Things went pretty smooth, lots of help from the guys. I'll get photos up in a few days.

The heads are still in the shop. Hope to have them out on Tue or Wed. I'll be closing up the engine later this week. Everything seemed to fit well. I'm missing the little o-rings under the oil pump bolts, and we are waiting for a GTS baffle for my oil pan before closing the bottom.
Reply
Old Mar 30, 2008 | 02:05 AM
  #40  
RyanPerrella's Avatar
RyanPerrella
Nordschleife Master
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 8,934
Likes: 3
From: theporscheconnection.com
Default

Doc,

You may want to just put the pan in with 4 or 6 bolts right now.

I was really careful with everything but i lost a compression washer for the cam tensioner oil feed line in the head and it dropped down into the pan. Its aluminum so no magnet on a stick was ever going to get it. I had to remove all 30 nuts and pull the pan off and replace once i got the washer out. I would suggest you don't button the pan up until the valve covers are on.
Reply
Old Mar 31, 2008 | 02:34 AM
  #41  
docmirror's Avatar
docmirror
Thread Starter
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,886
Likes: 151
From: Rep of Texas, N NM, Rockies, SoCal
Default

Originally Posted by RyanPerrella
Doc,

You may want to just put the pan in with 4 or 6 bolts right now.
.
I bagged it(literally) for now. I'll get the bag off and the pan on in a few days. My worst dropsey was just a few months ago. I had a misfire in the Lambo. So, I took out the plug and cleaned it. While I had the plug out, I pulled the jets from the carb, and OH SPIT!!! Yep, right down the plug hole, into the cylinder. Brass, no magnet on a string for this.

It took me about an hour with some solder, and a dab of elephant snot to glue it on the solder. I pulled it out, oh-so gently, and it fell off the snot just outside the plug hole. I was almost
Reply
Old Mar 31, 2008 | 12:19 PM
  #42  
soontobered84's Avatar
soontobered84
Rennlist Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,114
Likes: 344
From: Texas
Default

Doc,
I thought that it was a good tech session. I learned some stuff I didn't know before. That always makes it good. Too bad more folks weren't there.
Reply
Old Mar 31, 2008 | 02:20 PM
  #43  
docmirror's Avatar
docmirror
Thread Starter
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,886
Likes: 151
From: Rep of Texas, N NM, Rockies, SoCal
Default

Thank you John, I thought we had a good session too. Roger was unimpressed with all the logistic issues. I need to spend a bit more money at 928sRus.

So, anyway back to the business at hand. work clean. Lay the block on a work space and blow it off one last time with an air gun. Insert the shells, and get them even with the case halves. Lube the shells and get the crank ready. Use a bit of Lubriplate on the chamfer where the seal runs. I had to clean one of the seal surfaces with a green scuff pad and B-12. Once all the shells are in place put the front bearing in. There is an anti-rotation pin in the front main. It aligns with the anti-rotation hole in the bearing. Install F/R seals, then drop it gently into the block. Note the front main bearing hole lines up with the locator pin. I used a small dab of anerobic sealer on the seal recess to take up for some damage by the PO? If you use this stuff, go sparingly, small beads and smooth it with your fingers across the flange. Align the seal with the front and rear faces of the block, don't push the seal in too far. Rotate the crank, to get the seal running true, it will 'find' it's own center as the crank is rotated.

Now locate the oil pump in the block as start the two bolts. Prep the girdle by blowing it off once again. Insert the shells into the girdle. Note that the same shells match up with the ones in the block. i.e. the #2 shell in the girdle should be from the same box as the #2 shell in the block, etc. don't mix them. the thrust is obvious. Lube the girdle shells.

Now it's best to do at least one test fit. Make sure the girdle will go onto the block. You don't have to go all the way down, just get it so that it will mate with the pin-boss on the block. Mind the o-ring on the oil pump, it will be a bit sloppy at this point. Pull the girdle back off, lay it upright, clean any spilled oil from the flange and start applying the anerobic sealer to the girdle. Put a little extra dab in the corners where the F/R seals are, and a little extra dab near the oil pump o-ring. Smooth it all with your finger, or use the fancy roller shown in the WSM.

Once the sealer is on, don't delay grab the girdle and get it on the block. Mind the oil pump o-ring again, as it seems to be flopping around a bit. Use a rubber dead blow mallet to tap the girdle down, then start the nuts on the girdle. **Critical point here: Don't wrench down on any single stud. Work evenly with the mallet, and finger tighten the nuts as the girdle goes down. Also, have someone turn the crank to check for pinching, or binding. We had a bit of this to start with**

Once the girdle is seated on the sealer, and the nuts are hand tight, install the third oil pump bolt and torque the oil pump bolts to 22Nm. There is a flat machined on the inner vertical boss of the oil pump and you don't want a ridge sticking up here. It aligns the case sections longitudinally. Now without delay, start tightening the nuts on the girdle, working from the WSM sequence. Follow all the torques listed as there are steps to the process. Have a helper turn the crank nut regularly to check for binding. Finish torque and go back one more time. Don't miss a bolt or nut here.

A common mistake is to put the seals in too far. The face of the seal should be flush with the case There is room in the machined radius to put the seal in further. Don't bash on it if you have it flush with the case.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beer Break.
This is a joke, but actually, you want to do the above steps without interruption. It's best to not allow any breaks from the time you clean the block, until you have torqued the girdle in place. Interruptions can cause you to loose your place in the assembly and miss something critical. In flying terms, we call it 'sterile cockpit', no outside distractions when T/O or landing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My camera was acting up so no photos of the piston insert, unless someone else took some? If so, post-up.

Install rings using a ring install took, or do it by hand. The gap on the oil ring should go opposite the gap on the inner spring(you'll see what I mean). Look at the pictures on the ring package for help getting the rings in the pistons. Generally, the way you remove the ring from the sleeve, is the way it fits on to the piston. That is, as you remove it from the sleeve, you are looking at the top of the ring, that faces the head. so, remove ring from sleeve, attach to ring tool, install on piston. But, verify, mistakes have been known to happen(pictures on the paper sleeve).

Locate the ring gaps 120 degrees apart. The oil ring should be on the intake side, or 'up', with the top seal rings toward the exhaust side spaced at 120 deg. Reorient yourself facing the front of the car, hold the piston/rod out in front of you and angle it as if it were in the car. So, for #1, the piston would be in your left hand, with the crown arrow facing your chest and tilted to the left, with the rod tilted to the right. Look down at the rod gap, you should NOT see numbers, they face down.

Remove the nuts and gently remove the cap, no bashing, pounding, beating. It's a prefect circle now, unless you've pounded on it. Blow out the cylinders once more, and lube #1 with your hand(ahhhhhh). Insert the bearing shells in the rod and cap. Lube shells, and make sure they are aligned with the hemisphere of the journal. Put about 3" of fuel hose over each rod bolt to protect the crank journal. Have the #1 journal all the way up out of the block. Clean the ring compressor with B-12 and install tightly on the piston, insuring that the rings seat in the grooves.

Fit the piston in #1 hole with the arrow facing the crank nut. Now, while holding around the base of the ring compressor, try to pinch the compressor with one hand. Simultaneously, use the butt-end of the handle of the rubber mallet to tap the piston crown and drive the asm into the bore. It will provide resistance as the rings transfer from the compressor to the bore. You will have to tap in various spots on the crown to get the piston seated right. As the piston goes into the bore, the ring compressor with fall off the crown. Keep tapping the piston home as a helper guides the rubber hose covered bolts over the journal. tap until you get a solid 'thunk' indicating that the bearing has oriented to the journal.

Put cap on by hand, no pounding and attach nuts finger tight. Rotate the crank and allow the rod to find it's 'home' on the journal. Go get piston/rod #5, lather, rinse, repeat as above. Once both rods are on the journal. Get a feeler gauge and check the journal cheek gap. It should be around 0.006". Leave the gap tool in for the torque to minimize twist on the bearings as you torque the rod nuts. work the torque in successively similar to the girdle nuts. Maybe, increments of 15Nm on each side.

Turn the crank at least two revs before finish torquing. There should be even force all the the way around, with no 'free' and 'loaded' parts of the rotation. However, you will notice more torque is required on the crank nut as the rod journal is at 90 Deg to the bore, simply due to the added arm-moment. Not a problem. Now, repeat for each pair of pistons through 4/8 and don't forget to rotate the crank regularly and check for binding.

you have now assembled a short block. Pat yourself on the back, and have another beer break. Sterling provided excellent assistance in reminding me to cover the engine after assembly to keep grit, and foreign materials out of the cases. He spent all day getting the bumpers on his car, which was time well spent.

Next, heads and cams. Stay tuned.

Last edited by docmirror; Jul 17, 2014 at 12:39 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 1, 2008 | 09:49 PM
  #44  
docmirror's Avatar
docmirror
Thread Starter
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,886
Likes: 151
From: Rep of Texas, N NM, Rockies, SoCal
Default

Paint work. Getting close. The pics in the booth look a little rancid. I think the camera didn't like all that florescent lite.

Last edited by docmirror; Jul 17, 2014 at 12:39 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 1, 2008 | 10:02 PM
  #45  
ROG100's Avatar
ROG100
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

20 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,943
Likes: 1,046
From: Double Oak, TX
Default

Doc,
Great tech session - you are a master and I learned a lot thank you.
Not everyones "cup of tea" rebuiding an engine.
Thanks,
Roger
Reply




All times are GMT -3. The time now is 11:31 PM.