Mirror Alternatives (not Aero)
03-22-2008, 06:35 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
03-22-2008, 06:57 PM
#32
Man of many SIGs
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Anything with the name Jaquemond costs three times what it should. Some of the Jaquemond mirrors are nothing more than 935 mirrors. I like the look but I have been told by a reliable source that they aren't very functional.
03-22-2008, 07:55 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
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There is something with the firing order that ive wondered about, yes it does seem out of balance.
cylinders 3 & 7 fire consecutively, as do 2 & 6 and 4 & 8. Those combos are on the same journal so that makes sense that they fire consecutively. However cylinders 1 and 5 are jumbled in the middle of this all and cylinders 4 and 8 fire inbetween 1 & 5 so this breaks the consecutive firing pattern. Since you asked, i found the discrepency to be in the 1 and 5 cylinders.
3 and 7 fire one after the other (cylinders share the same crank journal) then 2 and 6. It would seem that would make for a nice smooth V4 right there. then cylinders 1, 4, 8 and 5 fire and they make a clockwise pattern. Left front, left rear, right rear, right front. Its almost as if the inner 4 cylinders are from a separate engine then the outer ones. I assume this has to do with torque production. I wonder if the GTS is any different actually. (probably not)
I was going to look at the order for other V8's but other engine makers number their cylinders differently, so comparison is difficult at this time.
Still i dont understand how you expect to change the firing order. I am sure Porsche knew what they were doing when they designed the short block. Firing order is probably one of if not the first thing you decide on when designing a fresh from the ground up engine.
F1 engines all seem to have differing firing orders all for different reasons to their manufacturers. They are all 2.4L but BMW goes with a different bore and stroke and firing order then does say Mercedes-Benz. They are different, but if your question is about firing order then i would love to know what your idea was to change it. I don't see a perfect pattern in the firing order of the M28 but i don't see a perfect order in other engines either.
Where were you going with this? Start a new thread on this, I for one am curious.
cylinders 3 & 7 fire consecutively, as do 2 & 6 and 4 & 8. Those combos are on the same journal so that makes sense that they fire consecutively. However cylinders 1 and 5 are jumbled in the middle of this all and cylinders 4 and 8 fire inbetween 1 & 5 so this breaks the consecutive firing pattern. Since you asked, i found the discrepency to be in the 1 and 5 cylinders.
3 and 7 fire one after the other (cylinders share the same crank journal) then 2 and 6. It would seem that would make for a nice smooth V4 right there. then cylinders 1, 4, 8 and 5 fire and they make a clockwise pattern. Left front, left rear, right rear, right front. Its almost as if the inner 4 cylinders are from a separate engine then the outer ones. I assume this has to do with torque production. I wonder if the GTS is any different actually. (probably not)
I was going to look at the order for other V8's but other engine makers number their cylinders differently, so comparison is difficult at this time.
Still i dont understand how you expect to change the firing order. I am sure Porsche knew what they were doing when they designed the short block. Firing order is probably one of if not the first thing you decide on when designing a fresh from the ground up engine.
F1 engines all seem to have differing firing orders all for different reasons to their manufacturers. They are all 2.4L but BMW goes with a different bore and stroke and firing order then does say Mercedes-Benz. They are different, but if your question is about firing order then i would love to know what your idea was to change it. I don't see a perfect pattern in the firing order of the M28 but i don't see a perfect order in other engines either.
Where were you going with this? Start a new thread on this, I for one am curious.
What does this have to with mirrors?
Again.....you still don't see a pattern here. you have gone so far off topic it isn't funny......
this off topic pipe discussion was started by our friend north of the border (I took no offense to his comment, nor have I ever, nor will I ever), then you chimed in with him. that would be the order of postings. go back a re-read it if you like.
with the discuss about porting, you made the comment (it was more of a question) about hemi-chambers, I suggested an American marque, and you blew it up into a full blown rant about how you can't stand American Iron as if we here in America couldn't wipe our asses with out the Germans showing us how to do it......
Ryan, if you even had a clue about how the Germans build cars (I do), you would quickly note that one such builder (BMW) puts over $7000 of re-work before anything they build gets off the assembly plant floor. That's right, Ryan, over $7K of fixing sh** that should have been right to start with. The Germans have historically over built everything they touch, not for superior build quality, but because they didn't get it right to start with.........So much for your foreign superiority build complex......
As for the firing order/exhaust scavenging question (of which you still don't have a clue), it has to do with not allowing two cylinders to fire their exhaust side by side, down the same manifold or header. When you eliminate this, it creates a scavenging effect, making it easier for each cylinder to draw exhaust gases out of the manifold/header areas. this can be accomplished a few different ways, by using unequal length primaries, or routing some tubes to one side and sending the other tubes to the other side. another way is to use a cross over, or X-pipe after the header or manifold. it has nothing to do with changing the firing order or changing the exhaust note (sound). the former has more to do with vibrations and harmonics, the latter nobody gives a damn about......
of course, with all of this education, you still haven't answered my initial question. But------I'll give you a week to figure it out......
--Russ
--Russ
03-22-2008, 09:06 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
Now, enough about bogan sidepipes...
Personally, I've been wondering lately whether 996 aero mirrors would fit - they have a neat upturned part on the end, and by my own experience they have much better rear vision than the 928/993 aero mirrors. The GTS mirrors suffer from blind spots you could hide a Yukon in!
I also quite like the look of the Strosek mirrors, but think that they also need the wide-body kit to avoid looking out of place.
03-22-2008, 09:24 PM
#36
Nordschleife Master
What does this have to with mirrors?
Again.....you still don't see a pattern here. you have gone so far off topic it isn't funny......
this off topic pipe discussion was started by our friend north of the border (I took no offense to his comment, nor have I ever, nor will I ever), then you chimed in with him. that would be the order of postings. go back a re-read it if you like.
with the discuss about porting, you made the comment (it was more of a question) about hemi-chambers, I suggested an American marque, and you blew it up into a full blown rant about how you can't stand American Iron as if we here in America couldn't wipe our asses with out the Germans showing us how to do it......
Ryan, if you even had a clue about how the Germans build cars (I do), you would quickly note that one such builder (BMW) puts over $7000 of re-work before anything they build gets off the assembly plant floor. That's right, Ryan, over $7K of fixing sh** that should have been right to start with. The Germans have historically over built everything they touch, not for superior build quality, but because they didn't get it right to start with.........So much for your foreign superiority build complex......
As for the firing order/exhaust scavenging question (of which you still don't have a clue), it has to do with not allowing two cylinders to fire their exhaust side by side, down the same manifold or header. When you eliminate this, it creates a scavenging effect, making it easier for each cylinder to draw exhaust gases out of the manifold/header areas. this can be accomplished a few different ways, by using unequal length primaries, or routing some tubes to one side and sending the other tubes to the other side. another way is to use a cross over, or X-pipe after the header or manifold. it has nothing to do with changing the firing order or changing the exhaust note (sound). the former has more to do with vibrations and harmonics, the latter nobody gives a damn about......
of course, with all of this education, you still haven't answered my initial question. But------I'll give you a week to figure it out......
--Russ
Again.....you still don't see a pattern here. you have gone so far off topic it isn't funny......
this off topic pipe discussion was started by our friend north of the border (I took no offense to his comment, nor have I ever, nor will I ever), then you chimed in with him. that would be the order of postings. go back a re-read it if you like.
with the discuss about porting, you made the comment (it was more of a question) about hemi-chambers, I suggested an American marque, and you blew it up into a full blown rant about how you can't stand American Iron as if we here in America couldn't wipe our asses with out the Germans showing us how to do it......
Ryan, if you even had a clue about how the Germans build cars (I do), you would quickly note that one such builder (BMW) puts over $7000 of re-work before anything they build gets off the assembly plant floor. That's right, Ryan, over $7K of fixing sh** that should have been right to start with. The Germans have historically over built everything they touch, not for superior build quality, but because they didn't get it right to start with.........So much for your foreign superiority build complex......
As for the firing order/exhaust scavenging question (of which you still don't have a clue), it has to do with not allowing two cylinders to fire their exhaust side by side, down the same manifold or header. When you eliminate this, it creates a scavenging effect, making it easier for each cylinder to draw exhaust gases out of the manifold/header areas. this can be accomplished a few different ways, by using unequal length primaries, or routing some tubes to one side and sending the other tubes to the other side. another way is to use a cross over, or X-pipe after the header or manifold. it has nothing to do with changing the firing order or changing the exhaust note (sound). the former has more to do with vibrations and harmonics, the latter nobody gives a damn about......
of course, with all of this education, you still haven't answered my initial question. But------I'll give you a week to figure it out......
--Russ
This has nothing to do with mirrors? YEAH I KNOW, why did you start talking about the exhaust, I was responding to your babbling.
Seriously, you know what, your not even worth the time to respond, so here is the abridged version
As for me not understanding the idea of the exhaust flow, see below, you mention (above) you can change primary length or move primaries to the other bank.
I ALREADY SAID THAT (below) Its already been done and it makes for a beautiful header but it takes up a hell of allot of room
As for exhaust sound not being effected your wrong, it does change the sound of the engine as the exhaust pulses are now coming from different pipes. Stick with large smoke stacks and sidepipes please.
Crap I thought i had you on ignore
Typical, we are in a thread about mirrors and your talking about exhaust scavenging, must be something you read about in the Peterbuilt owners manual or something. Why its posted here in a Mirror thread is beyond me. Of course i am not surprised though.
You can move primaries to exit out the opposite bank, ive seen 928 headers do this before but to my knowledge this just changes the exhaust note. It makes for some cool looking headers but it takes up a hell of allot of space.
Typical, we are in a thread about mirrors and your talking about exhaust scavenging, must be something you read about in the Peterbuilt owners manual or something. Why its posted here in a Mirror thread is beyond me. Of course i am not surprised though.
You can move primaries to exit out the opposite bank, ive seen 928 headers do this before but to my knowledge this just changes the exhaust note. It makes for some cool looking headers but it takes up a hell of allot of space.
Your seriously not worth the effort to respond to, you remind me of someone else, its like speaking to a brick wall.
Cheerio dude
Last edited by RyanPerrella; 03-22-2008 at 09:42 PM.
03-22-2008, 09:44 PM
#37
Nordschleife Master
Oh and as for your comment way back when about the 911 not being a hemispherical head, why dont you take a look at the 911 discussion forum, they don't seem to agree with you there cowboy.
Please start a new thread if you want to continue to talk about exhaust.
Back to mirrors:
I don think 996's would work because they mount to the corner of what would be the window. If you could mount then they would be cheap, there are a ton of those floating around
ACTUALLY! How bout Carrera GT Mirrors! Those mount to the door! (I THINK, not looking at a pic of one)
I wonder what those cost, that would be major bling!
Please start a new thread if you want to continue to talk about exhaust.
Back to mirrors:
I don think 996's would work because they mount to the corner of what would be the window. If you could mount then they would be cheap, there are a ton of those floating around
ACTUALLY! How bout Carrera GT Mirrors! Those mount to the door! (I THINK, not looking at a pic of one)
I wonder what those cost, that would be major bling!
03-22-2008, 09:53 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, UK.
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Hi 
I have read this thread with interest as I would like to get rid of my flags but...
1, Too expensive here in the UK for Aeros plus painting them...
2, I am told that the Aeros have much worse visibility than the flags...
Can someone tell me honestly if 2 is true ??? Preferably from someone who has either done the conversion or driven both ??
All the best Brett
I have read this thread with interest as I would like to get rid of my flags but...
1, Too expensive here in the UK for Aeros plus painting them...
2, I am told that the Aeros have much worse visibility than the flags...
Can someone tell me honestly if 2 is true ??? Preferably from someone who has either done the conversion or driven both ??
All the best Brett
03-22-2008, 10:01 PM
#39
Nordschleife Master
Yes, 2 is true. The rearward vis. is shocking on the Aero's compared to the flags.
A local '89 GT to me has them installed, and while they look nicer than my '89's flags, there's no way I'd feel comfortable commuting with the aeros in heavy traffic. Driving with them the view is less than confidence inspiring changing lanes.. where a simple lean forward is enough with flags to check the blind spot, the aeros you're faster just to turn your head and look, and hope the guy in front doesn't brake unexpectedly.
BTW - for your speed attempt, you might consider just removing your mirrors completely and taping over the screw holes
03-22-2008, 10:15 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
The Corvette mirrors look nice and are very close to the Porsche aero mirrors I doubt most people would even notice unless they were parked side by side. A bigger concern to me would be the mounting bolts. The Porsche door has the nutplates mounted to a reinforced plate in the door. I'm sure the Corvette mounting is different and would create additional problems modifing the door to accept them.
03-22-2008, 10:20 PM
#42
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, UK.
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Hi Brett,
Yes, 2 is true. The rearward vis. is shocking on the Aero's compared to the flags.
A local '89 GT to me has them installed, and while they look nicer than my '89's flags, there's no way I'd feel comfortable commuting with the aeros in heavy traffic. Driving with them the view is less than confidence inspiring changing lanes.. where a simple lean forward is enough with flags to check the blind spot, the aeros you're faster just to turn your head and look, and hope the guy in front doesn't brake unexpectedly.
BTW - for your speed attempt, you might consider just removing your mirrors completely and taping over the screw holes
Yes, 2 is true. The rearward vis. is shocking on the Aero's compared to the flags.
A local '89 GT to me has them installed, and while they look nicer than my '89's flags, there's no way I'd feel comfortable commuting with the aeros in heavy traffic. Driving with them the view is less than confidence inspiring changing lanes.. where a simple lean forward is enough with flags to check the blind spot, the aeros you're faster just to turn your head and look, and hope the guy in front doesn't brake unexpectedly.
BTW - for your speed attempt, you might consider just removing your mirrors completely and taping over the screw holes
Thanks for the honest answer, as I use mine every day in Town as a daily driver, that means Aeros are not on for me...
Which leads back to the original question with an add on....
Which other make aero TYPE mirror can we use but WITH as good visibility as flags ???
All the best Brett
p.s After my first attempt at my record runs WITH everything still attached, I will have a second attempt with everything removed (wipers, mirrors etc, amd taped seams)
03-23-2008, 02:34 AM
#43
Three Wheelin'
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Ryan--
it is just useless to say or point out anything to you when you continue to:
not go back and read the whole post--including where you started talking about something off topic and don't even acknowledge that you did, but accuse me of starting something off topic?
Again,
I didn't say anything about 911 or any of it's variants.
I didn't want to talk about exhaust and nor did I say anything about exhaust until you chimed right in there making assumptions and **** poor comments about my stuff that you could have just asked about.
I didn't say anything about changing exhaust note, you did.
you still don't have a clue about any of this, and continue to banter on about it.
you got pissed off when you asked about hemispherical combustion chambers, and I answered with "Chrysler".
you hate American Iron---so what. I hate idiots who pretend to know something about automotive production and really don't know sh**, just like you demonstrate every time you hit the keyboard.
More BS from you, and you still haven't even answered a simple engineering question, on a subject that you still don't know sh** about. And after the week's time I gave you to answer my question goes by, you still won't have an answer.......or a clue.
As my wife just said after reading your ridiculous posts----
"Who the hell let him into Texas anyway?????"
4400 plus posts, by this next week's end it will be over 4500, and you have yet to offer any technical help other than you'd like to go to Sweden one day.....????
Off topic....?????
You are the queen of off topic.........
(at least DanglerB had a clue......you continue to demonstrate that you do not......and he got banned. wonder if you're next?)
----back to my paint removal project.
--Russ
03-23-2008, 02:54 AM
#44
Nordschleife Master
Ryan--
it is just useless to say or point out anything to you when you continue to:
not go back and read the whole post--including where you started talking about something off topic and don't even acknowledge that you did, but accuse me of starting something off topic?
Again,
I didn't say anything about 911 or any of it's variants.
I didn't want to talk about exhaust and nor did I say anything about exhaust until you chimed right in there making assumptions and **** poor comments about my stuff that you could have just asked about.
I didn't say anything about changing exhaust note, you did.
you still don't have a clue about any of this, and continue to banter on about it.
you got pissed off when you asked about hemispherical combustion chambers, and I answered with "Chrysler".
you hate American Iron---so what. I hate idiots who pretend to know something about automotive production and really don't know sh**, just like you demonstrate every time you hit the keyboard.
More BS from you, and you still haven't even answered a simple engineering question, on a subject that you still don't know sh** about. And after the week's time I gave you to answer my question goes by, you still won't have an answer.......or a clue.
As my wife just said after reading your ridiculous posts----
"Who the hell let him into Texas anyway?????"
4400 plus posts, by this next week's end it will be over 4500, and you have yet to offer any technical help other than you'd like to go to Sweden one day.....????
Off topic....?????
You are the queen of off topic.........
(at least DanglerB had a clue......you continue to demonstrate that you do not......and he got banned. wonder if you're next?)
----back to my paint removal project.
--Russ
it is just useless to say or point out anything to you when you continue to:
not go back and read the whole post--including where you started talking about something off topic and don't even acknowledge that you did, but accuse me of starting something off topic?
Again,
I didn't say anything about 911 or any of it's variants.
I didn't want to talk about exhaust and nor did I say anything about exhaust until you chimed right in there making assumptions and **** poor comments about my stuff that you could have just asked about.
I didn't say anything about changing exhaust note, you did.
you still don't have a clue about any of this, and continue to banter on about it.
you got pissed off when you asked about hemispherical combustion chambers, and I answered with "Chrysler".
you hate American Iron---so what. I hate idiots who pretend to know something about automotive production and really don't know sh**, just like you demonstrate every time you hit the keyboard.
More BS from you, and you still haven't even answered a simple engineering question, on a subject that you still don't know sh** about. And after the week's time I gave you to answer my question goes by, you still won't have an answer.......or a clue.
As my wife just said after reading your ridiculous posts----
"Who the hell let him into Texas anyway?????"
4400 plus posts, by this next week's end it will be over 4500, and you have yet to offer any technical help other than you'd like to go to Sweden one day.....????
Off topic....?????
You are the queen of off topic.........
(at least DanglerB had a clue......you continue to demonstrate that you do not......and he got banned. wonder if you're next?)
----back to my paint removal project.
--Russ
Since your wife is so concerned tell her that i really cant wait to leave texas compadre. Tomorrow wouldn't be soon enough, you can have your state Gov'ner
Its been suggested to you that you keep it cool with the personal attacks, yet you continue to do it. My posts are about a damn car, you however continue to choose to make this a personal matter even after one of your threads about me was closed. What are you trying to accomplish exactly? Have you not already been warned?
As for your Hemi, take a read at this and you can see who the true pioneer is. (Courtesy of a fellow Rennlister of course) http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...ine/index.html
Now i will let you have the last word, i wont continue to debate with you, but i suggest you cut the personal CRAP and talk about cars. Comprende? I wont continue to post on here so.........
The floor is yours.....in the aero mirror thread of course.
Last edited by RyanPerrella; 03-23-2008 at 03:11 AM.
03-23-2008, 10:58 AM
#45
I really need to go back to reading all of the threads daily. Now I know the reason for some other thread.
Russ, chill out man. I've met the both of you in person and think this is pretty damn stupid.
Ryans got a hell of a lot of tech knowledge in his head and would not hesitate to take most of what he has in his head as if it came out of the WSM.
Russ, chill out man. I've met the both of you in person and think this is pretty damn stupid.
Ryans got a hell of a lot of tech knowledge in his head and would not hesitate to take most of what he has in his head as if it came out of the WSM.