Head lights.
06-09-2003, 09:45 PM
#1
Nordschleife Master
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Head lights.
On my car, my driveing lights and my low beams are both fused for the same amperage. Two 8 amp fuses for the low beams, and one 16 amp for the driveing lights.
Does any one have a good clue as to why my driveing lights are so much weaker than my low beams? Are they all like this?
I've got the GTS lights that go with my bumpers. They appere to be in decent contion, no great, but the reflectors are good.
Thanks.
Does any one have a good clue as to why my driveing lights are so much weaker than my low beams? Are they all like this?
I've got the GTS lights that go with my bumpers. They appere to be in decent contion, no great, but the reflectors are good.
Thanks.
06-10-2003, 12:07 AM
#2
Chronic Tool Dropper
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On my '89, I was able to replace the 55w fog/driving bulbs with 100w bulbs. Adds to the brightness. Except for the annoying problem of having to replace the bulbs more often, I'm quite happy. The fogs are aimed at the California standard, center-of-beam is 4" off the pavement at 75 feet. High enough to be usable as poor-man's DRL's, but not too obnoxious.
Gotta say that the biggest improvements have come from replacing the lens/reflector assemblies following rock damage. I have the stone-guards on now and the rock damage has diminished some. Anyhow, if your old reflectors are dull and the rocks have pitted the glass some, think about replacement with new stuff to get the brightness back. Not cheap, but great results!
Gotta say that the biggest improvements have come from replacing the lens/reflector assemblies following rock damage. I have the stone-guards on now and the rock damage has diminished some. Anyhow, if your old reflectors are dull and the rocks have pitted the glass some, think about replacement with new stuff to get the brightness back. Not cheap, but great results!
06-10-2003, 12:27 AM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
By my measurements, 8 amps, at 12 volts means 96 Watt, right? I'd be a bit worryed about blowing the fuse with two 100 Watt bulbs on a 16 amp fuse.
Sounds intersting though. I might just do it.
The other semi crazy idea I had was if poor lighting was common for the unit, I'd go out and buy some 75-100 watt bulbs at the auto parts store, and build a bracket to make them fit.
Thanks.
Sounds intersting though. I might just do it.
The other semi crazy idea I had was if poor lighting was common for the unit, I'd go out and buy some 75-100 watt bulbs at the auto parts store, and build a bracket to make them fit.
Thanks.
06-10-2003, 12:49 AM
#4
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Dr. Bob,
A while back (months), I saw your comment regarding the beefier bulbs that you put into your fog / driving lights. I purchased the same for my '89 S4, but have not installed them yet. I guess they were never a priority.
What I am wondering now is, if there is a chance of blowing a fuse or messing up some existing wiring with the new bulbs... how about creating an entire new circuit for them, complete with new and upgraded wiring, fuses and switches ?
If at all possible, I would like to utilize the existing switches but would consider new and discrete versions if needed.
Would this be feasible ? Thanks for your opinion on this.
Rob
A while back (months), I saw your comment regarding the beefier bulbs that you put into your fog / driving lights. I purchased the same for my '89 S4, but have not installed them yet. I guess they were never a priority.
What I am wondering now is, if there is a chance of blowing a fuse or messing up some existing wiring with the new bulbs... how about creating an entire new circuit for them, complete with new and upgraded wiring, fuses and switches ?
If at all possible, I would like to utilize the existing switches but would consider new and discrete versions if needed.
Would this be feasible ? Thanks for your opinion on this.
Rob
06-10-2003, 01:38 AM
#5
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I suspect that there is some margin of safety for the wiring in the harness....... typically 100%, BUT the switch contacts and the circuit protection (fuse/breaker) certainly isn't going to carry 200% of normal current.
I have read that in the newest of the Detroit Iron, one can get noticable increases in headlight brightness by simply providing the "add-on" circuit that Robert referred to, above. It's probably a good idea in any case of substantial additional lamp power conversion. You actually use the old circuit to activate the relay for the new, heavier capacity circuit, so the user sees no difference at all.
I have had the unfortunate luck of having the "extra relay" weld closed on one of my "auxilliary driving lights" once. Finding the fuse, under the hood, in the dark, when it's -40 F sucks!! Guess someday I'll learn not to mount 2 4522's on a ground vehicle!
I have read that in the newest of the Detroit Iron, one can get noticable increases in headlight brightness by simply providing the "add-on" circuit that Robert referred to, above. It's probably a good idea in any case of substantial additional lamp power conversion. You actually use the old circuit to activate the relay for the new, heavier capacity circuit, so the user sees no difference at all.
I have had the unfortunate luck of having the "extra relay" weld closed on one of my "auxilliary driving lights" once. Finding the fuse, under the hood, in the dark, when it's -40 F sucks!! Guess someday I'll learn not to mount 2 4522's on a ground vehicle!
06-10-2003, 01:25 PM
#7
Chronic Tool Dropper
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OK, we need to start off with the basic disclaimer that is implied but often left out of free-advice posts: Proceed at ypur own risk, your mileage and results may vary, etc. Now on to the good stuff!
I have had the 100W bulbs in there now, in both the fog and the main beam positions, for five years with no problems. I drive with the foglights on all the time with no problems, either as DRL's as noted earlier or as supplements to the dipped beam headlights. No fuse problems, and my plastic adjusters haven't melted (yet...) I have spares of those from the old assemblies, along with the reflectors, in case of disaster. This use is with the StoneGuards installed, plastic shields that add a layer of insulation from the cooling air over the fronts of the lenses. Keep in mind also that I hardly ever get to drive my car these days, adding only about 35k to it in my six+ years of ownership.
The bulbs for cars are typically rated for consumption/output at 14V, so a little Ohms Math combined with a Jimmy Watt calculation suggests that there's a current consumption of 7.14 amps per bulb, 14.28 total. Current is a sensitive item, since any resistance in the path results in less current through the circuit. So the length of the cable from the battery, resistance at the fuse and the holder, and the relay socket and the relay itself, all conspire to protect the fuse. So long as the resistance is well distributed, you won't have hot-spot problems.
Proper circuit protection has the fuse sized to protect the wiring between the fuse and the bulbs, and that's where things can get sometimes get exciting... but not today. If you inspect the wiring diagram, you'll see that the fuse (#30 on my 1989 S4) is just after the foglight relay. So the wiring is protected between the relay and the bulbs OK, but the relay itself is unprotected. The wire size to the bulbs is listed as 1.0 mm^2 cross section, or about 16ga. Depending on the insulation class, 16ga wire in a bundle is typically rated for 18 amps minimum, so the 16a fuse is the appropriate protection for that cable. Not much safety margin, but still OK.
The relay-relay-relay is typically rated for 30a resistive load, and the bulbs qualify as an almost pure resistive load. But you already knew that, using your powers of inductive reasoning.
Now to the problems: The heat where the wires connect inside the housing is pretty intense. So much so that you may want to search out some high-heat sleeve to put around the wiring in the bucket. Be careful not to allow any wires to lay up against the reflector when it's all assembled, thereby avoiding melt-through of any insulation. Yes, it gets that hot! I used some fibreglass high-heat tape to wrap the wire and the connection just to be sure.
So, that's the whole scoop on using the brighter bulbs. Along with the 80/100W headlights (which sometimes melt the plastic sockets), the area in front of the car is significantly brighter than it was when I first bought the car.
I look forward to an E-spec/H-4 upgrade sometime in the next few years(or three thousand miles, whichever comes first...). Those can be wired a little more aggressively for bigger bulbs. It will take relay-relay-relay-relay along with some bigger wiring and dedicated fuses when that task comes along. It will probably be in concert with a main battery cable upgrade and such.
----
Side note-- I picked the car up in Denver on a Friday morning, intending to get it home to the Los Angeles area in a couple days. It was early October, and after a few hours in the new saddle I seriously entertained the idea of just cruising on straight through to home. As evening drew on I was in Utah, making the transition from I-70 to southbound I-15, when I decided that it would be a good idea to use the headlights. Just starting to get dusky but not yet dark. Noticed that the headlights are aimed off into the bushes on one side and at low-flying airliners on the other. So that pretty much killed off the straight-through idea, and I camped at a motel is beautiful Beaver, Utah that evening. Turned out to be a Good Thing for reasons completely separate from the headlights. Left Beaver at 5am, cruising south at the limit plus a bit, maybe 65. Stop in St George for a breakfast sandwich, and then did a high-speed blast through the Virgin River Gorge on I-15 just as the sun was getting to the red cliffs. This area is really the northwest corner of Arizona, isolated enough that there would be no possibility of patrol at that early hour. Without admitting guilt, yer onner, it was a pretty satisfying ride through there, no traffic, no patrol, 120+ between the harder turns. Nice way to get to know a new ride. After that it was a relatively tame ride down past Las Vegas and on to L.A., arriving just after lunch for a car wash and clean. If the lights had been aimed correctly, I would have missed that golden tourist opportunity!
<img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />
I have had the 100W bulbs in there now, in both the fog and the main beam positions, for five years with no problems. I drive with the foglights on all the time with no problems, either as DRL's as noted earlier or as supplements to the dipped beam headlights. No fuse problems, and my plastic adjusters haven't melted (yet...) I have spares of those from the old assemblies, along with the reflectors, in case of disaster. This use is with the StoneGuards installed, plastic shields that add a layer of insulation from the cooling air over the fronts of the lenses. Keep in mind also that I hardly ever get to drive my car these days, adding only about 35k to it in my six+ years of ownership.
The bulbs for cars are typically rated for consumption/output at 14V, so a little Ohms Math combined with a Jimmy Watt calculation suggests that there's a current consumption of 7.14 amps per bulb, 14.28 total. Current is a sensitive item, since any resistance in the path results in less current through the circuit. So the length of the cable from the battery, resistance at the fuse and the holder, and the relay socket and the relay itself, all conspire to protect the fuse. So long as the resistance is well distributed, you won't have hot-spot problems.
Proper circuit protection has the fuse sized to protect the wiring between the fuse and the bulbs, and that's where things can get sometimes get exciting... but not today. If you inspect the wiring diagram, you'll see that the fuse (#30 on my 1989 S4) is just after the foglight relay. So the wiring is protected between the relay and the bulbs OK, but the relay itself is unprotected. The wire size to the bulbs is listed as 1.0 mm^2 cross section, or about 16ga. Depending on the insulation class, 16ga wire in a bundle is typically rated for 18 amps minimum, so the 16a fuse is the appropriate protection for that cable. Not much safety margin, but still OK.
The relay-relay-relay is typically rated for 30a resistive load, and the bulbs qualify as an almost pure resistive load. But you already knew that, using your powers of inductive reasoning.
Now to the problems: The heat where the wires connect inside the housing is pretty intense. So much so that you may want to search out some high-heat sleeve to put around the wiring in the bucket. Be careful not to allow any wires to lay up against the reflector when it's all assembled, thereby avoiding melt-through of any insulation. Yes, it gets that hot! I used some fibreglass high-heat tape to wrap the wire and the connection just to be sure.
So, that's the whole scoop on using the brighter bulbs. Along with the 80/100W headlights (which sometimes melt the plastic sockets), the area in front of the car is significantly brighter than it was when I first bought the car.
I look forward to an E-spec/H-4 upgrade sometime in the next few years(or three thousand miles, whichever comes first...). Those can be wired a little more aggressively for bigger bulbs. It will take relay-relay-relay-relay along with some bigger wiring and dedicated fuses when that task comes along. It will probably be in concert with a main battery cable upgrade and such.
----
Side note-- I picked the car up in Denver on a Friday morning, intending to get it home to the Los Angeles area in a couple days. It was early October, and after a few hours in the new saddle I seriously entertained the idea of just cruising on straight through to home. As evening drew on I was in Utah, making the transition from I-70 to southbound I-15, when I decided that it would be a good idea to use the headlights. Just starting to get dusky but not yet dark. Noticed that the headlights are aimed off into the bushes on one side and at low-flying airliners on the other. So that pretty much killed off the straight-through idea, and I camped at a motel is beautiful Beaver, Utah that evening. Turned out to be a Good Thing for reasons completely separate from the headlights. Left Beaver at 5am, cruising south at the limit plus a bit, maybe 65. Stop in St George for a breakfast sandwich, and then did a high-speed blast through the Virgin River Gorge on I-15 just as the sun was getting to the red cliffs. This area is really the northwest corner of Arizona, isolated enough that there would be no possibility of patrol at that early hour. Without admitting guilt, yer onner, it was a pretty satisfying ride through there, no traffic, no patrol, 120+ between the harder turns. Nice way to get to know a new ride. After that it was a relatively tame ride down past Las Vegas and on to L.A., arriving just after lunch for a car wash and clean. If the lights had been aimed correctly, I would have missed that golden tourist opportunity!
<img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />
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06-10-2003, 05:36 PM
#9
Chronic Tool Dropper
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ViribusUnits:
<strong>Sweet.
Looks like I've got a set of 100W bulbs with my name on them, somewhere.
Thanks.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">FWIW, stay away from the no-name bulbs. Shopping off the bulb rack at the local Wal-Mart, I get the GE bulbs that do just fine. If I buy the same H-3 bulbs a couple aisles over, from the rack by the off-road lights, I find that the Hi-Power Super-Off-Road Blind-the-Deer 100W H-3 Blaster bulbs don't do nearly as well. If you stick with a name brand like the GE's, or Osram, Sylvania, etc, you should be fine.
Good luck!
<strong>Sweet.
Looks like I've got a set of 100W bulbs with my name on them, somewhere.
Thanks.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">FWIW, stay away from the no-name bulbs. Shopping off the bulb rack at the local Wal-Mart, I get the GE bulbs that do just fine. If I buy the same H-3 bulbs a couple aisles over, from the rack by the off-road lights, I find that the Hi-Power Super-Off-Road Blind-the-Deer 100W H-3 Blaster bulbs don't do nearly as well. If you stick with a name brand like the GE's, or Osram, Sylvania, etc, you should be fine.
Good luck!