Tampa 928s

I am getting mixed messages on this bulb. Can anyone send me in the right direction.
CEC xenonblue 80/100 xb h4 100/80w is what I have and want to replace them with a bright bulb.
From my testing the bulbs work on 12/6 volts when on high beam just 12v on low beam could this be the cause?

COPY OF CUSTOMER CHAT WINDOW

Please wait for a JC Whitney Product Specialist, we'll be right with you.
You are now chatting with Product Specialist Gail.
Gail: I am a Product Specialist that specializes in helping customers with questions regarding JC Whitney products. Is there anything I can help you with today, via a secure, live chat session?
You: Yes
Gail: Hello, how may I help you?
You: I purchased a set of H-4 with 80/100 blue bulbs and both burned out at the same time
You: Not sure if I want to replace them the total hours were under 20 in use.
Gail: When did you purchase them?
You: Do you have another type of lamp that will be as bright but last longer?
Gail: If you like, I can either send you a new pair, or credit you for them.
Gail: What size?
You: last year I never drive this car
You: 80/100 for both low and high beams
You: looks like a cec xenon blue
Gail: Ok, please hold as I need to find out the correct size.
You: These a a 3-prong connection type
You: These are your after market replacement headlamps not the factory sealed beam type
Gail: I'm sorry, we don't carry bulbs for this car.
Gail: The first year bulbs were made for this car is 1987.
You: You sold me these headlamps as a kit
Gail: What is your name & zipcode?
Gail: I want to find out what you ordered.
You: mark xxx
Gail: Thank you.
Gail: I have checked your order & the wrong ones were ordered.
You: What does that mean they will not work?
Gail: Our suppliers don't have bulbs for the 928 until 1987 & they are 9004 only.
Gail: No, they are too strong.
You: They were for off use only and plenty of 928 owners use these.
Gail: I'm sorry, but for your year, they are the wrong size.
You: These were purchased as a kit including headlamps
You: They ran and fit fine just did not last!
Gail: Our suppliers don't show a listing for the 1986.
Gail: They all start at 1987.
You: Are you reading what I am saying?
Gail: Yes, I do understand, however the ones you ordered are too strong.
You: Do you have a copy of my invoice?
Gail: They are known to short out the entire headlamp system.
Gail: Yes, I do have a copy of your invoice.
You: Can I get a copy of it please
Gail: I don't have the capability of sending it through this chat.
You: What H-4's are you recommending?
You: Can you e-mail or fax it?
Gail: None, as they are too powerful.
Gail: Our suppliers didn't start making them until 0987.
Gail: There aren't any off-road bulbs for 1986.
You: OK can you E-mail me the receipt?
Gail: I can fax it to you.
You: xxx-xxx-xxxx- fax
Gail: Ok.
Gail: I'm going to get this faxed to you this afternoon.

Fabio421

Tampa 928s

That's what I thought but 15-20 hours at max?

Fabio421

What do you need headlight for anyway. With that new Murph Supershark of yours you should be traveling faster than the speed of light.

BTW, I want to drive that beast. I'll settle for a ride but while I'm at it I might as well go for the full montey.

Alan

What does this mean? I don't understand "12/6" ?

What testing did you do? what voltage does your alternator put out?

Alan

Tampa 928s

When I measured the voltage at the O connector on the bottom of the fuse panel and found that during High beam operation two of the circuits show 6 volts and when in the low beam operation shows 12volts. There is nothing wrong with the charging circuit

Connector O
High beam:
pin 12 12v
pin 13 6 v
pin 14 6 v
pin 15 12v
Low Beam
pin 12 0v
pin 13 12v
pin 14 12v
pin 15 12v

I did not think the lamp would reduce the voltage like this on high beams, could this be the cause these have only a few hours on these new lamps.
__________________

Alan

Well - I think you have your headlights wired incorrectly.

There is really only one way to get 6v and that is with a voltage divider. If your low beam and ground connections to the bulb are swapped then you will get ~6v on your low beam when you are in high beam mode - you will also get very dim highbeam and low beam filamants on at the same time.

Meanwhile in low beam mode you will get some voltage on your high beams but no current flow....

Note that on an H4 the "middle" pin is not the ground pin as you might expect.
From the rear of the bulb - if you orient it to have a left pin, a top pin and a right pin. Then the left pin is Ground, the top pin is low beam and the right pin is high beam. These should correspond with these wires colors:

Ground - Brown Wire
High Beam - White(R) or White/Black(L) wire
Low Beam - Yellow(R) or Yellow/Black(L) wire

Maybe your bulbs aren't burned out? check them off the car - fix the wiring issues and if you really are seeing short lifetimes - the most likely reason is over voltage. Bulb life is inversely proportional to ~V^16 - this means small overvoltage impacts bulb life dramatically - this is often even more pronouced for "specially selected" bulbs since they may be operating very close to their limit to achieve maximum brighness.

As an example: operating at 15v will cause bulb lifetimes to be reduced to about a quarter of their lifetime at 13.8v.

Alan

Tampa 928s

Looks like the bulbs over heated look at the top on both they are bulged out on one section.!

Tampa 928s

Alan

I took the readings off of the panel I will take them from the headlamp harness to verify. I don't belive I have an over voltage condition 13.7v on meter the highest when charging. One bulb is clouded white other looked normal with blue coating it's hard to see. Maybe one went out and took the other with it but seems like they are running through 4 seperate fuses.

Alan

They look really odd - were they always frosted like this?

I still expect this is a connection issue to get those funky 6v readings... check?

They are rated for 12v operation? (it is possible to find 6v rated motorcycle H4's - though not very commonly)

Alan

Tampa 928s

The voltages at the lamps are 12v and 12v respectively. Seems like these just got too hot and burned out. Others say they have used the 100/80 with no problems, go figure.

dr bob

Tampa--

I know that you know, but a reminder anyway: A fingerprint on the glass envelope will cause the failure you picture. You MUST NOT handle the glass with bare hands. When you replace these with whatever you decide, be carefull. If you do suspect that you have accidentally touched the glass, or that someone else has, take a minute to carefully clean the glass envelope again with a little rubbing alcohol. The high heat generated by these bulbs pushes the limits of the glass under the best circumstances. A bit of oil from your fingerprint causes stresses in the glass at the edges of the print, causing the glass to distort and possibly fracture.


FWIW, the wiring in the 928 is marginal at best for 100w bulbs. The only thing that saves the wiring is the overall resistance in the circuits that reduces voltage and current flow. The lower voltage means a dimmer light, while th ereduced current means slightly lower temps. Still, wiring gets hot. If you really want to use high-wattage bulbs, spend some time installing a couple-four relays to drive them, with new higher-temp wiring especially inside the buckets. I've used kynar wiring with fiberglass sleeves in the bucket and still had some local heat damage right at the bulb.


There are some darn-near-usable H4 conversions to mercury lamps (called HID in the auto world...) that include high- and low-beam functions. The ones I've seen generally give up some of the hard upper cutoff typical to e-code lenses. They consume about 35 watts though so the stock wiring is adequate, and they put out an awful lot of light. generally, you can find them in various color temps to suit your sense of style. Too many folks buy the higher color temps because they look more blue. Your eye will like a slightly lower temp closer to white. Might be worth a look, since you already have the housings and lenses.

Another FWIW-- the quality of the cheapo H4 bulbs starts to show up soon, in things like bulb life and fogging of the reflectors. Spend on some good name-brand assemblies and you'll be ghappier in the long run. Cheap "high-wattage" bulbs are often really lower-voltage guts overdriven with higher voltages. Just a heads-up!

Tampa 928s

Believe me I was very carefully when installing them they were never touched.
You maybe correct on the 100 watts, could be with age the connections are less than superior and may add to resistance and there for more current draw. I'll check into the lamp you suggested, it was great while they lasted but at the price it costs more than gas per mile driven

Alan

No - it works the other way around... extra resistance due to wires, connectors etc just lowers the voltage, power & protects the bulbs. It may cause degradation to the wiring and certainly means you get brightness loss...

Many folks run 100/80W (me included) and there are no real issues with stock wiring - except less than optimal brightness as Dr Bob says.

I agree get good quality bulbs from reliable manufacturers - not sure what happened here but its odd...

It is certainly true that cheap bright bulbs are likely to be unreliable... high brightness bulbs need to be manufactured to tighter tolerances than lower power bulbs to have the same lifetime - this costs money to do.

Alan

Tampa 928s

In terms of keeping my head from under the hood for more than 20 seconds do you recommend the Hella H-4's or equivalent brand.
Your right, the bulbs were probably made by Wong and sold by JC Whitney, they said they would give me a credit. I hate to start to rewire anything else, like to pay attention to the Innovative kit first.
What do you recommend for a Plug and Play, keep away from the blue lamps?