ThompsonBill15

Hello all,
I don’t post here much but I read here quite often. While there is no shortage of discussions on this site in regards to turbos, superchargers, etc. There seems to be a particular discussion that is strangely absent. The silence is rather deafening about the new Eaton TVS supercharger. With all the technical information that gets passed along on this board I am surprised that I can’t find one reference to the TVS. This supercharger is supposed to be more efficient than the twin-screw types (Autorotor, Whipple, Lysholm, and Kennebell). Eaton has performance charts posted on their website and there’s a lot of talk about the TVS elsewhere. It’s used in the 620HP 2009 Corvette ZR1, the 550HP 2009 Cadillac CTS V, and Ford Racing sells it in a 605HP kit. It’s already been running on cars in other countries as well.
Has anyone thought of adapting this to a 928? Seems that since there have been both Eaton and twin-screw installs this would only be slightly different. I am hoping that a particular vendor (that is a rennlist sponsor) has been holding off on shipping their kits in order to provide this new technology.

By the way I posted a similar thread last night but with comments on a nonsponsor’s 928 product and links to a discussion about it and that thread was deleted. Hopefully I'm ok this time.

Does anyone have any info?

Bill

RyanPerrella

This is what the 4th gen roots type blower?

I am familiar with it in that ive read about it on the new ZR1 but who told you its more efficient then then new crop or coated rotor twin screws from the likes of whipple?

It maybe more efficient then the old roots system but the old roots was something like 50% adiabatic so anything more then that is an improvement. I recall whipple claiming their previous TS type was 85-90% and the new coated ones are even better, possibly another 5% more efficient.

I doubt going from 3 rotors to a 4th is going to change the efficiency that much. Tolerances sure help allot with that but i dont think its eclipsed the twin screw / lysholm type blower at all.

ThompsonBill15

Ryan,
There are performance charts for the twin-screw and TVS posted on the internet.

There isn't an apples to apples comparison becuses they are sized differently but here are links to a few charts. Regardless the lysholm charts don't come close to the TVS charts.
Also there's no TVS R1900 chart posted which is most aplicable to a 928.

TVS R1900 (1.9L) 75% max
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ.../ct_127899.gif

LYS 2300 AX (2.3L) 65% max
http://www.opcon.se/www/files/lyshol..._lys2300ax.pdf

LYS 1600 AX (1.6L) 66% max
http://www.opcon.se/www/files/lyshol..._lys1600ax.pdf

TVS R1320 73% max
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ.../ct_127898.gif

LYS 1200 AX 64% max
http://www.opcon.se/www/files/lyshol..._lys1200ax.pdf

Bill

RyanPerrella

Those lysholm charts arent up to date. (opcon isnt my choice for twin screw there are more efficient blowers then theirs.)

Look at whipple's website

I was wrong about 90% but the whipple lists between 75-80% adiabatic. The roots is popular with OE guys because they are cheap. Those rotors are simple compared to the individual male and female screw rotors. That new roots dosent best the better screw type compressors.

Just look at the websites.

Also think about what the old roots are like, anything is better for efficency over the roots type. This 4th gen Roots is cool, its an upgrade and better in comparison to the lysholm type but its not better or more efficient. It should still be cheaper but thats it.

I suppose whipple could be fudging their numbers because they are quite a bit better then the ones youve posted but i would be very suprised by that.

Bill Ball

DR is building with Autorotor. No one is building 928 kits with Eaton anymore. The Gen V Eatons were easy to pickup cheaply used or new on the open market. If I could find a TVS for not a lot of money, I would try it. It probably wouldn't require much to adapt to what I have. However, I think they will cost about the same as a twinscrew, and twinscrew still is probably better overall (more efficient and better top-end power).

RyanPerrella

Forget my previous mention of Roots Gen 4, Bill mentions an old Gen V so i am wrong, (as far as generation numbers are concerned) but what this new compressor is, is an update, its still considered a roots type blower with 4 rotors now instead of 3 or really old 2 rotor systems. But still have the same limitations as the roots but the gaps arent what they used to be so its more competitive. The old 3 rotor roots setups are almost stone age at this point.

I wouldn't call this new 4 rotor eaton blower an upgrade over a lysholm thats for sure. I think the reason it was developed is so it can close the ever widening gap, the lysholm blowers are quite a bit more to make, yet they still dont seem to get much over $2000 for the compressor itself, which is pretty reasonable if you ask me.

ThompsonBill15

It's not a 4th or 5th generation. Eaton has a 5th generation roots but it's not a TVS. The TVS a 1st generation of a different product.

Whipple doesn't list any compressor smaller than 2.3L. The largest TVS chart is for 1.9L. They have not posted the chart for the 2.3L TVS. So ther is no real comparison.

Aditionally whipple doesn't show the charts so we do not know how they perform at pressure ratios appropriate for an otherwise stock 928. Appropriate presure ratio for an otherwise stock 928 would be 1.4 to 1.7. In fact the TVS has an even greater advantage over the Lysholm at these ratios.

Anyone know where to find the autorotor charts?

Bill

RyanPerrella

DUDE! its a roots blower! with 4 rotors instead or 3

your reading their marketing campaign and falling for it hook line and sinker.

Sailmed

Well it shouldn't be too long before they tow a 1900 in to the bone yards...
I'm first on the transplant list with a few yards.

RyanPerrella

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Produc.../TVS/index.htm

"Eaton’s new Twin Vortices Series (TVS) is a roots-type supercharger for a variety of engine applications that delivers more power and better fuel economy in a smaller package, for uncompromising, high-performance driving."

Its a 4 rotor where the vanes are now spun as well. It looks like a screw but a screw has 2 different rotors male and female, this is two identical rotors = roots type.

Also i already told you that i was wrong to call it a 4th Gen and when bill mentioned 5th he was talking about his older unit. So i clarified that yes i was wrong in my generation numbers. But your new TVS is a new roots blower, and its still less effective and efficient then the lysholm.

The reason I think a lysholm is better is that the numbers show it to be so.

Rick Carter

You still have to make an intake and a few more details. There is satisfaction in DIY; having a bolt on system with all details worked out isn't a bad option.
I'll see you at SITM.

ThompsonBill15

Ryan,
What numbers are you referring to? The TVS charts clearly show higher efficency than the Lysholm charts. The whipple numbers are not comparable. I would like to see the Autorotor charts.

I don't care if it's a roots or a twin-screw or anything else. If it's better, it's better.

Bill

RyanPerrella

THE LYSHOLM CHARTS YOU POSTED ARE OUT OF DATE!

I see 75% on the largest whipple blower and 80% on their smallest 1.3L blower.

I will find charts or info and post it since you dont belive what i am telling you.

back in a flash........

RyanPerrella

oh and FYI, when i say lysholm, thats a type and its named that for the inventor Lysholm who created the design in sometime _____________________________ (insert wikipedia stuff here)

When i say lysholm i mean twin screw type such as the autorotor, or whipple and some others. my favorite is whipple, why they arent more popular is beyond me, they seem to have a superior product but who knows.

RyanPerrella

here is some whipple info
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/...sp?ProdID=1162

I AM NOT SELLING ANYTHING, please dont remove!