Stuie

First off, I know you guys racing 928's sink a ton of cash into it. I haven't got the financial resources but, I have a car.

If I was to try and get my car in race mode, what would be the best route to modify the car? Strip off the emissions and the interior? Are there any roll cage specs posted anywhere? I would like to build a race car but, I don't know anyone who is doing it or where or what series to race.

Any help on info would be seriously appreciated.

I have a Euro '82 928 and a '74 914 (the car I learned to drive in '84)

Thanks!

Brad W

Email sent

IcemanG17

Paging MK....otherwise known as the king of the budget racers!!!

But seriously.....the car can be built fairly competitive for not too much $$$$ If you plan on contesting a full season worth of races (12 races in ITE here).....between consumables (gas-tires-brakes-etc) entry fees, hotel-food-etc it can exceed the cost of the car in not too long!!!

with that said....I think you can build a really nice race 928 on a very moderate budget.....$15k + the car would give you a very nice setup......

mark kibort

I think the Iceman says it all right there.

I firmly believe we have had the best bang for the buck of any racers out there.
(ie going fastest, doing best, and costing less. the extremes are running in speed GT compared to running an RX7 in NASA or SCCA)

for the cost of the car, being in the $3-8k range and then the minimum $7k adder for all the racing upgrads, you got the $15k guesstimate. (could be more if you have more of the work done by a shop) I dont have much more than a set of metwrench and scattered specialty tools. I still cant pull a tie rod out, but i can rebuild a motor.

anyway, you have to learn how to work on the 928, as things like timing belts have to be checked and changed occasionally, and if you pay for stuff like that, you may as well go race a mustang or spec miata. Otherwise, the 928 can be very cheap to race at a "fun and competitive" level, like running ITE with SCCA where there often are 50 car fields, with near 20 cars in ITE class .

Eitherway, the costs due add up, even if you get the tires for near free by using other folks' scrubs, and pitch tents to save on hotel costs. I think my last years' 12 race season cost a little over $5000. In comparison, i think I have more than a few friends that spend well over that on their golfing or skiing last year.

If you need some of the tricks to keep converting the 928 to a race car, just ask away. There are a bunch of folks that have helped me along the way as well. the trickiest part is the cage. the range of costs could be $1200 to $6000.
The minimal cage for SCCA should be built for about $1500. very basic. 6 point front bars mounting at the front left floor area, a halo bar up top and two rear down bars mouned just in front of the shock towers, as well as two side door bars. on each side.

mk

FlyingDog

Look at the car Vito has for sale. It has a NASA legal cage (which should meet all of SCCA's rules, has a logbook and is supposedly in very good condition.Plus the diagonal for the main hoop and a harness bar.

cdbtx

Stuie,

First are you married? Do you own a home? Are you independantly wealthly?

The first thing and most important if you're married is to decide how you're going to hide the race car money from the wife. There are a variety of methods used on the board - I'm still searching for the most effective.

Own a home - this is easy if you're not married - hot water tank goes out - need car parts. What is your priority. Myself, if I was single - well water can be heated on the stove.

Roll Cage - Ken O'Sage just purchased some bulk metal for 5 roll cages and has all the specs. PM me if you're interested and I'll send his email address.

Fabio421

I think there are alot of people here who wonder the same thing. Every time I go to a track event such as this past weekends Sebring race, I hear plenty of 928ers pining away for a race car. Most of us have no idea what is required to field a budget racer. Maybe this thread can compile alot of the info to give everyone an idea.

Stuie

Haha! You guys are great and thanks for the info.

This idea is not something I can move on immediately due to funds but I am exploring what I can get together this year for possibly next year if it's something I will be able to do mostly myself in the garage.

I have several racers (Drag) in the family and they seem to have a lot of fun. While I am building a drag car at the moment, a race that lasts a little bit longer than 12 seconds sounds even more fun to me.

Plus, I like this ratty old 928.

Stu

dr bob

Stu,

Decide how "competitive" you'll need to be, that will decide how expensive it will be. Shoestring racing is OK I guess, but if you need to win you will always be frustrated.

Before you dive into the big leagues like ITE, start off with the local clubs and do some drivers-ed events with your car is street trim. It will need to pass a basic tech inspection, and you'll need some basic personal safety gear that will carry forward into your next steps. Your local PCA chapter might be a good starting place. You'll learn to drive your car as it is. As you get better, you'll start doing things to the car to better support your new driving abilities. Unnecessary weight will come out of the car progressively. You'll start spending on race tires and dedicated wheels. Then springs and shocks and anti-roll bars. At some point you'll look at what your other local clubs offer for track time, and maybe some competition. When you make the jump to SCCA, you'll find then that there are bigger safety requirements. Roll bars or cages depending on class, seats and seat-belts that you'll likely want from early on anyway. Entry fees and insurance will get bigger too, and your tire budget will need to swell a lot once you start to taste real competition. You can download the SCCA rules book for an idea what's involved for each of their car classes.

As others mention, there are some costs beyond buying and the basic prep on the car. One is time, major time as you want to drive more. The 928 is a sturdy car, but you are starting with a 20+ year old chassis with a lot of miles on it, so it's likely the suspension will need a bunch of replace/rebuild work to make the car reasonably safe for race conditions. For instance. Ongoing there are major expenses like tires and brakes that you'll be constantly replacing. Insurance and entry fees as mentioned above. Travel costs will start to grow as you start going to events that aren't in your back yard. You'll likely end up with a trailer, either one to haul race tires, tools and a drink cooler, or one big enough for the car, plus race tires, tools and a drink cooler plus a vehicle to tow it. MK manages to stuff his race stuff into his car, but he's more than the exception and he can't see out the right side of the car at all while driving to the track.

You need to be able to race your car, knowing it will be damaged during races. As much as the rules say no contact, there is incidental contact and there are accidents. People will spin out, you will spin out, you'll find out that the grass is very slippery and you have no way to avoid hitting the barriers once you leave the track. People do stupid stuff in the heat of competition in amateur races, and it may involve your car. Can you afford to lose the car, and/or repair it when it's damaged? This will be out-of-pocket stuff for you, of course.


Back when I was young and immortal and single, I jumped into SCCA racing in a big way, ready to set the world on fire. I quickly found out I was not alone. Not counting the purchase of the car, I was spending 10-20 hours a week making and keeping it competitive. I hired a driver to help get it sorted while I earned my licenses. Raced a couple seasons before the first car was destroyed in a track accident. Took all I'd learned about the first car, and built three new-and-improved versions. While I was bulidnig, my race partner decied to go get killed in a rent-a-ride car, and that pretty much took the fun out of all of the efforts. Finished the cars and sold two, kept one and raced it a few times to prove it worked. Then mothballed it. It hangs in my storage garage on the wall. That was over twenty years ago. Total investment was a couple hundred $k or so, plus the lost life as a fringe event.



Good luck in your quest!

mark kibort

I assumed that part of the cage was obvious, but that also exactly right. sure there are some little specs on that as well that need to be followed, otherwise, you might not pass inspection. so get it installed by someone that knows the rules, OR, take a devek roll bar and then finish it off with a cage. heavier, but it will pass inspection.

mk

Drewster67

Lets turn the attention away from the car for a moment and lets talk about the "track clubs" IE NASA/PCA etc .....

Many of these clubs will do trade outs for volunteer work. Thats how I got started almost ten years ago. I started work the corners flagging, then I was promoted to grid, then to Timing and Scoring (Asst T&S manager), then finally as an instructor.

In AZ - The DE sessions are usually comp'd and if I would like to run in a race group - the fees are minimal. (from my experience)

IMO - this is best way to learn the ropes and it DEFINITELY helps with the out of pocket costs of going to the track.

Check with your local clubs for more information.

Hope this helps!

shmark

Don't build, BUY. Preferably something with an up to date log book and recent maintenance history, good tires and spares. Believe me, it's worth it and MUCH cheaper than building one from your existing car. BTDT. I'm playing with my street car now and it will remain that way, street...maybe an occasional DE at some point. But for serious track duty I'll be buying a car that's already done.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Do NOT start by building a race car especially if you have no idea where and with what group because they all have different rules. Something as simple as adding flairs to the fenders might mean you MUST race against full on racecars with monster engines. Wider wheels also can make a big change in where your car fits in. Your best bet is take your stock 928 out to the drivers education events with the various local groups and see what they do ,how they do it , and get some track time. THEN get the rule books and read ,read, read... Get to know some of the other drivers and ASK QUESTIONS and listen very carefully to what they say The real key is track time because you will quickly learn that there is much about driving that you do NOT KNOW trust me on this And it is better to learn with a slower less powerful car for a variety of reasons. As mentioned getting involved with the club can help you with the expenses...because I instruct as well as do tech inpections at the track I only pay 1/2 or less of the normal entry fees !

Mike Frye

WOW, I had no idea I could work for track time! That sounds awesome. I've got to check into that, thanks!

F451

Buy an already race prepped Miata, Neon, 914, 944, etc.

Just kidding. But it is something to consider.