ROG100

Malcolm,
Hope you have recovered from Friday night 8>)

The Eibachs being progressive seem to give a soft ride at street speeds and a firmer ride the faster the cornering. On my GTS the original springs had sagged and I needed to replace them.
I had GT springs in stock but felt they would be to harsh for my needs so I went with Eibachs because they seemed to be as close to stock as I could get without buying stock springs at lotsa money.

Driving the Dragon at twice the speed "seemed like it anyway" as I did the year before clinched the deal - Boge Stock and Eibachs.

Bill Ball

I've ridden in a bunch of 928s, including mine with Boge Reds and stock springs (that's how mine came), and ones with brand new Boge Reds very recently, and the ride was fine for daily driving and high speed stuff. We put them on Matt's 88 S4 5 speed for open road racing. He's hit 160 MPH and he and his navigator were perfectly happy with the ride.

When my original Boge Reds seemed to be worn out (although really not that badly) at 95K miles, I went on an oddesey in search of good replacement shocks and springs. Some setups I tried were undriveable at anything over 130 MPH, especially in turns, including some very scary stuff when I came down from 170 to enter a 140 MPH turn, where the car would not take a set and wallowed all over the road. The Bilstein/stock springs that I have now are just about where I want the ride to be - very nice around town, controlled in tight twisties with no bottoming or excessive lean, and stable at very high speed, and able to quickly take a set entering high speed turns where my previous setups failed me.

Anyway, different people seem to have different observations about shocks and springs. All I wanted to say is that I wouldn't call Bilsteins harsh, at least with stock springs. Same with Boge Reds. They were both a factory option at various times and seem to provide a sporty ride that was more controlled and firmer than Boge blacks (or blue greys) without being uncomfortable or harsh.

As for Eibach springs, most people like them; a few find the progressive area of the spring to cause some odd anomalies. Oh, and it sure could be that the Eibachs and Boge blacks are a good combination, if that is what you have. I've not tried it.

It would be nice to build a strong consensus on shocks spring combinations, but it doesn't seem possible. Some of this may be due to oddball quality control issues with some shocks, which I think accounts for some problems I had. That wrecks consensus building.

david928

Going over a bump at high speed, my car would oscillate two or three times, and seemed to "float". That indicated the springs were still working, but the shocks weren't damping. So I went with the same setup as Bill (Bilstein shocks/Stock springs). If you're shocks are worn out, replacing them with anything new will make a huge improvement in handling.

the flyin' scotsman

Fri night was a fine night thx.........the Glen Dronach and Glen Fiddich went very well with the traditional neeps, tattties and haggis.

On topic: how do we measure spring sag?............can it be done by simple measurement of free and compressed length?

JHowell37

No one here will ever admit to spending a boat load of money on a suspension and not be happy with it. People are quick to say that the black Boge shocks are inferior, but I have a hard time buying that when plenty of automotive publications have referred to the 928 as the best handling car they've driven. And I would bet they made those claims based on stock springs and black Boge shocks. So in the big picture, saying that black Boge shocks are inferior/junk is sort of silly. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. Would people still say they're junk if a company like Monroe made shocks for the 928 and sold them for $30 each? I bet they wouldn't because there would be a lot of 928s with Monroe shocks on the street that rode and handled like an old Fleetwood. This would make the Boge shocks appear to be downright tight and precise. But because the Boge black shock is the "bottom of the line" of course everything else will seem to be better.

Another consideration is that many of these cars are 20+ years old and the shocks are only one part of the equation. Wheels/tires, bushings, tie-rods, ball joints, will all have an affect on the ride and handling.

Most people don't replace their shocks until the old ones are ready for the trash can. Of course anything else is going to be better then what was on it (unless the replacement is of a lower quality then the original, i.e. the mythical Monroe shocks I mentioned earlier.)

I've put 10K miles on my 928 since August. I drive it on ****ty roads. I drive it in cities and on a long gravel driveway. I treat it like any other car. I replaced the original Boge oil filled shocks with the later gas charged black Boges and have no regrets. They are perfectly suited to my driving habits. Could I have bought some better shocks? Certainly. Could I have bought new springs? Yes. But then I would have gone from spending $450, to spending well in excess of $1000 for an improvement that may not suit my driving. And how much improvement is it really? Is the improvement worth the cost? There is that thing we call the point of diminishing returns.

ROG100

On my GTS I ran out of adjustable thread on the rear to achieve ride height.

Jim M.

I have to agree with Roger. He and I have the same springs and the same tire/wheel sizes. The only difference is I have the Bilsteins and he has the Boges. (OF COURSE MINE HAS THE PREFERED 5-SPD WHILE ROGER'S IS THE SLUSH BOX) His GTS rides better (smoother) than my GTS, has less suspension noise and generally is more comfortable for long drives. I suppose if they were both pushed to 9/10's mine might handle better, but neither of us drive that way, and neither of us tracks our cars.

Ispeed

I am not saying that "anything other than stock springs and Boge shocks will make the car faster", Jay Kempf hauling a$$ in his '79 with soft suspension will disprove any myth about stiffer=faster.

Me personally: I am not looking for comfort, just a feeling that the car's weight is not using up all the car's suspension travel when I start driving fast on normal roads. At 3500 lbs, that is a lot of weight for the car's springs to have to hold up when dips and g-outs and other road lumps come up- especially when cornering too. I also don't want to bottom out and damage the pan or block on the road.
Don't forget, our springs are 20 years old and not as stiff as when new.

ARCFLEMING

Hi,

My understanding is that the recent Boge black (gas charged) are revised from versions sold a few years ago aproaching the performance of the Boge Reds , I have no facts just something I overheard.

Brian
86.5

Bill Ball

Your positions are reasonable.

I need to spend more time in a car with newer Boge blacks and push it a bit. My car came with reds, so I was prejudiced, as I wanted the Boge red handling I had originally when I went out looking for replacements. The original shocks were outrageously good driven very hard in the trwisties, but they started to loose control at very high speed - I mean over 130. Below 130, I could not perceive a problem - well, maybe in a hard turn at 100. But the car did not react well to bumps or even modest undulations in the road at 130 or above. It would wallow around instead of take a quick set. I was talked into some other shocks instead of Boge. If I had it to do now, I would just get the reds and be happy. But you and Roger and others express reasonable support for Boge blacks.

mtelliott

This is the discussion I was looking for. A lot of real world experience, with honest thoughts.

Since driving over 130 is not in my game plan for now, I'm wondering if stock Boge would be good for now, and if I want to progress, graduating to Eibach springs might be best.

But then, I could go Bilsteins and get closer to where I might want to go. It's just the extra ~$500 for the Bilsteins are hard to justify over stock.

I know there's no right answer, just don't want to have buyer's remorse.

Michael

Ispeed

Bilsteins are rebuildable, so will last forever. $65 each to rebuild.

FlyingDog

There are several threads on how unhappy Bill was with his Konis. Maybe, they could have been on factory Bilsteins or Boge Sports. Either way, that was 13-31 years ago. Just because they were decent then doesn't mean there aren't far superior options now (which were also available during production). They are inferior. Junk is a matter of opinion. Ask the 911 owners with factory Monroe shocks what they think of them. Also ask how cheap they are. Monroe can build good shocks. Boge/Sachs can build extremely good shocks (ie: the new 997 GT3R Sachs shocks).

leperboy

Michael, you're welcome to come over and drive mine. I went with the Boge stock. I have the S4 suspension, but you can give it a whirl.

Stan installed them and I know earlier in this thread he commented that they were floaty compared to his Bilstiens, but he drove it right after installation, before the suspension settled, or it got aligned and the crap tires replaced.

I am satisfied with the Boge stocks for the way I drive.

Matt

mtelliott

Matt brings up a good question. Is the suspension different in an S4 vs. an S? And if so, how? I know the brakes are bigger, but is there a difference to the suspension?