Landseer

Before new relay: Connect (new) battery neg terminal. Turn on (new) ignition switch. Turn headlight switch to position 2. Result: pods rise, stop in upright position. No (new) headlights. Flip high beam switch. Nothing.

After new relay: Connect battery neg terminal. Immediately, hear headlight relay click once & lights illuminate. Nice view of ceiling, lots of spiders.
(no ignition, no movement of headlight switch from position 0.)

Continuing the test.... turn ignition on, rotate headlight switch to position 2.
Result: pods rise, lights immediately turn-off during pod rotation, pods stop upright, lights illuminate properly. Flip high beam switch. Highs work. Lows work.

Rotate headlight switch to position 0. Lights turn off, pods rotate to rest position, looking good, lights illuminate. Spiders.

Some would say "failure"

I say, almost there!!!!!

Alan

Well your old behavior suggests that the relay main on/off contacts didn't switch but everything else worked... most likely a failed coil or connection to it

The new behavior suggest that the coil input to that same relay is now permanently connected to battery+

The relay always turns off the headlights while they are rotating.

In either case the motor up/down stuff seems to be working correctly.

Have you been in the pod recently... A common point for both failures is the main headlight switch...

Do the auxilliary headlights/driving lights also come on with the headlights (in highbeam)when the ignition is off?

Presume they do when the ignition/lights(2) are on

Alan

Landseer

Yes, been inside dash. Replaced ign switch. Disassembled and reassembled headlight switch (that was not easy, could of fouled-up the alignment/contact of the springs deep within). I also cycled the lights one time, slowly and gently, using the rotator on the headlight motor, cc direction. Could I be slightly out-of position on this ****? Somehow lost operation of high beam indicator light, first it went on always, then off always, after install. Verified proper wire/teminal connections at headlight motor.

With Ign off, light switch off at position 0, and battery connected, I have, at the relay contact slots on the bare CEB, 12V at 30b, 30a and 30.

With Ign off, light switch at either 1 or 2, am showing 0v at 30b, 12v at 30a & 30

Again, signaling airplanes with relay in-place, Ign off, in all three headlight positions.

Did not yet try aux beams.

It feels so close, yet so far away from being right.

Alan

Ahhh ! so now you mention taking apart the light switch... doh!

However - your results on 30, 30a & 30b are normal

30 is the battery suply for the headlight relay contacts
30a is the headlight motor supply from the fuse
30b is off from the light switch (position 0 only)

The signal to turn the lights on also comes from the main light switch terminal 56 - its also called 56 on the headlight relay socket - test if it is at 12v with ignition off & light switch: 0/1 (it should require ignition on and Lights:2 to go to 12v).

Whilst this same signal also normally causes the pods to rotate up - the motor will only run if the X-Bus is also on. So with the ignition still off will not activate - I think this explains why it appears to work more or less correctly with the ignition on...

It appears that the 56 output of the switch may be shorted to battery+

Test at the relay then at the switch to confirm.

If the switch is faulty you really need a new main light switch - it is the most complicated of the pod switches (and the one you need to be most reliable) - repair is typically not feasible.

It has 2 poles, 3 ways and up to 3 throws per way... not easy to deal with...

The high beam indicator bulb in the dash is fed directly from the feed to the headlamps - only a connection issue should affect this if the high beams work.

Alan

Landseer

Hell, Alan, I've taken EVERYTHING apart.


(BTW, I didn't need no stinkin PPI !!!!)

Landseer

I picked-up 56 at the back of B5 and back of N7, rather than pull pod, to ascertain the status of 56 of the headlight switch. No voltage measured there, meanwhile, lights on, headlight pods retracted, ingition off. Same with Ign on. But with Ign on, switch at position 2, then I have power at B5 as well as N7, per diagrams. Damn.

Pulling the M plug cuts power to lights.

I'm starting to wonder if the new headlight relay has a short that's causing 30b, 30 a, or 30 to pull-in the relay. I still hear the relay click ( w/ ign off, headlight switch off ), every time I connect the neg bat terminal.

More data: with ign off, switch off & lights illuminating ceiling, the high beam switch works differently. If I push stalk forward, no change. If I pull stalk back, high beams come on til I release it.

If I turn off ign, with light pods properly up and headlight in position 2, Light pods stay up as normal. But,,,lights stay on.

Also: Auxilliary lights do not work with any combination of light switches or ign + light switches.
Auxillary light switch illumination occurs with key on.
But if I jumper the Auxillary light relay, both lights burn perfectly. I conclude that this relay is bad.

How do I test the new headlight relay?

Alan

So is this really a new relay - or a 'new' to you old relay?

Test the 56 for correct operation with the ignition & lights on.

Should be 0v until you have ignition & lights: 2 - & should stay high in low & high beam.

Does it work correctly ? if yes -

Either the "new" relay has a problem (stuck main contacts?) or you have wiring problem on the CE panel that has changed whats being fed to the relay's 56 contacts.

You can test the relay by unplugging it and probing between the 56b and 30 terminals (on the relay) - it should be open circuit - if it is connected then the main relay contacts are stuck closed.

Alan

Alan

BTW - what do you mean by auxilliary lights?

Fog lights or auxiliary driving lights (= auxilliary high beams).

I suggest you get the headlights fixed first - then see where you are with additional front lighting.

Alan

Landseer

Auxilliary --- The (rectangular) glass-covered units at the front of car. Have their own switch. As it is USA, they should be inoperable unless low beams are burning. Checked them because I thought that's one of the data points you asked me to check (earlier post). I agree, work one problem at a time, as you advised with interior lights and hatch lock also -- got it.

Ign + headlight switch in "2" position (full on, rotated right) shows full voltage at 56. High and Low beams.

Parking / markers / tails / stops work perfectly. Dash high beam indicator is working. (it was out of my field of vision when I reported it wasn't, didn't look at the right place on the dash.)

Headlight relay, brand new, reliable source common to all of us. I elected new to avoid potential problems with used. Came in a new porsche box.

I'll pull relay to check it cold.

PS...Thanks, Alan!

Landseer

Took off relay. Checked, no continuity between 56 pin and any others.

Checked power to board at 56 pin, key on. No power, until headlight switch is rotated to position 2. Then we have power at CEB 56 pin, no relay installed.

We established that with key off, switch off, power is only at 30, 30a, and 30b at the base of the relay. No other CEB connections are powered.

So, I made 3 jumper wires. Connected these terminals to corresponding terminals on relay, with relay sitting upright on a rubber mat on floor of car.
With ignition off, I measured voltage at the other pins of the relay.
The only pins WITHOUT 12V were 56a, 56b and X. Everything else, including 56, has 12 Volts. I wonder if this is proper. (Am also assuming I could get away with this test without causing carnage). (edit ...Reinstalled relay and have same behavior as orignally, so no damage done)

The failure (lights on, no ign) originally occured at installation of relay, no power to anything except 30, 30a and 30b. No key, headlight switch at 0.

Maybe I somehow squeezed or hurt the new relay when I installed it, causing a short or component failure. Or some other stray electrical connection is wrong. Am checking every circuit best I can. Will save this shark. Learning much along the way.

Sorry about the rambling. I'll take any suggestions. It will work again. Just need to be methodical.

Landseer

Wow. Boring post for everybody. Possible exception of those with a crazy headlight problem..

Old switch + Old relay = no lights ever, none, nada, null

Old switch + Brand New Porsche relay = Perfect, except lights also burn when pointing straight up at planes.

New switch + B N P Relay = same, lights signal airplanes, otherwise perfect operation.

Old Switch + SECOND B N P relay = SOLVED

New Switch + SECOND B N P realy = SOLVED.

Very interesting. Thank God that mystery is over.

Madmarek

I don't think this was a boring post at all. I am going through this mess now.
No luck as of yet.