Ron_H

Joe '87 S4

Why the grace period? This should have been in effect for a few years already.

Charley B

These laws are usually written with provisions that satisfy the large lobbyist contributors. Grace periods are a common compromise. Another reason for grace periods is to eliminate the "I didn't know" excuse.

Joe '87 S4

I thought ignorance wasn't a viable defense.

Lizard928

it only works in the US

Ron_H

Oh no !! Another issue. I will ignore this one, I will ignore this one, I will ignore this one.

Charley B

Yeah, you're right. At least that's what they say in the movies.

But often they will pass a law and then announce they will be giving warnings until a certain date, and after that a ticket.

marton

The European Commission (EC) and the International Road Transport Union (IRU) launched a scientific study, the European Truck Accident Causation (ETAC) study. To have expert teams investigate over 600 truck accidents in seven European countries.
Their determination was depending on the type of accident (e.g. single truck accident) for between 10% & 20% the main cause was non-adapted speed. This means not adjusting speed for the circumstances; it does not necessarily mean exceeding the speed limit.

UK Road transport studies show that excessive speed is a main cause of around 7% of accidents; again that is excessive not specifically exceeding a speed limit

There is also the UK road transport study TRL595 which shows that there are more Personal Injury accidents with speed cameras than without, see page 43 in
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/04-trl595.pdf

Marton

marton

Yes, you just have to find a suitably qualified person to draw a picture of it

Marton

Charley B

928SS

wait till cops start auditing our GPS / nav auto logs and use them against us just a matter of time.....

dr bob

For a long time, the old mechanical tachograph traces were respected as evidence of speeding/not speeding in many courts. Those devices were intended tp allow owners to monitor the way hired drivers were abusing equipment. The graphs were in sealed/locked/secured boxes, access unavailable to the driver. Fast-forward to today, when it's not really a problem to store hours of full-rate video, GPS data, and engine/road/g-load data. There are times when it would be handy to defend against a faulty citation, but more often would be used to incriminate me for all the other "illegal" but safe stuff I do. It would be cool to be able to isolate the few seconds before and the few seconds after the alleged offense, and hide the rest. Unfortunately, once you admit that evidence exists it's kind of hard to tell the magistrate to 'just ignore all that othere stuff, you can see clearly in these three frames that I was/wasn't doing what said I did/didn't do'. Data is a blessing and a curse at the same time.

GM reportedly has a lot of memory storing vehicle data in some of their cars. It makses sense that the little smart boxes in the car can remember stuff they learn during driving and accident situations. Speed, steering, brake applications, airbag deployment and impact data snap to mind as interesting and handy info to have when defending a customer claim that the car failed to do X when I told it to. It wouldn't surprise me to find that On-Star systems can transmit that info on demand. Is it 1984 yet?

928SS

yep. that's the stuff I'm referring to for sure. DOT could easily justify collecting data any time they feel like it on the general population for the same reasons they get it on planes, ships, trucks and trains now in the commercial sectors. then we can get tickets in the mail for everything.

on-star reminds me of Sky Net in the Terminator. soon it will take on a life of it's own, shutting down all unsafe user vehicles, traffic violators and others that are "a risk" to public safety, don't pay their car payments on time, are uninsured or if the driver can't pass an ID or cognitive test. we'll be left telling our grandkids about the day when we could steal our paents car and make our own driving decisions when our parents were out for the weekend or a time we could take our 928's out for a fun run in the canyons of LA county and not be arrested a week later for multiple "observed" violations. ha!

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

Not a rant at you Joe, just taking an opportunity to present some points.

Actually it is simply unsafe driving that causes the problem. I define unsafe driving as when an operator is not allowing safe margins for maneuvers, relying on other people to yield, not properly signally their intent, following too close, passing too slow, etc. If someone can safely operate a vehicle under the conditions, then they can and will accept responsibility for the results of what happens in an accident.

I strongly dislike the laws that define a particular possible distraction as illegal. Some people can drive using a cell phone, some people can not. A hands free cell phone is of limited value, since the very concept of talking with someone is a distraction. Someone attempting to read, someone else attempting to change their socks, are all distractions. What is important is whether the person operating the vehicle is operating the vehicle safely. Perhaps I can talk on the cell phone at 65 mph, but at 75 mph I do not have the capacity to safely drive. Of course giving someone a ticket for driving irresponsibly isn't as easy as a documenting a certain speed or using a cell phone.

If the system's primary function were to provide safety, then the focus would be on poor driving even thought it is subjective. Of course we could have more stringent driving requirements, but then a significant percentage of the population would be without transportation.

We all know that if speed enforcement were to hold traffic back, they would re-institute rolling blockades or simply pull over 50%+ of the drivers on a given day on a given stretch of highway.

I think revenue is a justification, but in reality it is about the perception. Politicians can say they are doing something about traffic accidents, including fatalities and also reducing the burning of fossil fuel to as to limit global warming. Since it can always be argued that the system is working, regardless of it's flaws, and more importantly it means there is a reason to vote someone into political office.

After all, if we found we needed them and their rules less, how would they derive their power? No, I don't believe in a conspiracy, just that people who crave power will migrate towards opportunities to wield power. Political power is their nirvana.

I guess I a bit cynical

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

Well at least in a 928, they may never require it to be retrofited