Evil electrons,,,Was Gibts?
06-12-2002, 08:48 AM
#1
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Evil electrons,,,Was Gibts?
Went thru the ground straps again while exploring the Stuttgart Wunder Wiring, no matter how bad it gets I KNOW things could be worse, Japanese - not a millimeter of slack - we can save a foot of wire every 10,000 units, Hai!!!- motorcycle wiring, installed by genetically engineered, dwarfs with tiny lock plier hands.
Lucas electrical systems & wiring from the 50's and 60's. " I say old chap, we gave a lot of thought to wiring the new MG, MGB, and Sprite over Tea this morning..."
However, in addition to the mystery short that arose in the Golden Godess - Pattycakes - where my left side fender marker lights would blow a fuse every time I touched the brakes.
This problem though not resolved is at least isolated to the Lamp/Bulb control unit/switch.
Thanks again, Steve C., Max, Snow, others.
Huge help there! Now for the new one...
Mirror, window, sunroof, rear wiper switches were feeling sort of sticky so I disassembled them and cleaned the weapons grade cosmolene out/off of the not so delicate innards. There were 2 types of switches spring/detent BLADE type, and the classic ROCKER contact type with the little spring and ball bearing... "go easy, Leonard ".
These were disassembled and cleaned from the top of the console - thanks to whoever it was that advised Snow awhile back on this - .
The wires/connectors had been thouroughly checked when I did the CD install and had the dash and console apart.
Switches were working fine after the clean up.
So two months later they start acting like they were worn... had to wiggle the switches a bit to make them work. At the same time, I noticed that any of the console switches activated the rear wiper motor. With the engine running the wiper motor goes unheard. The Wiper arm does not and has not moved since the Body Shop returned her to me, the wiper arm drive plate is misaligned by an easy 3/8's of an inch. Shims ain't gonna work here, they must have used a sledge hammer
Additionally, the sunroof was playing the sluggard. I clean the rails top/bottom, fore /aft
and anything that looks like a pivot once a month - look like show chrome when I'm done -then apply a light coat of graphite grease so no problem there. But again, when I push the sun roof switch it is still sluggish, like a cordless drill running out of charge, AND the rear wiper motor activates. Obviously, somewhere in the system I have either a controller for these switches fritzing out or at some point all of the leads overlap and I have a short with the rear wiper motor leads being heavily involved.
I looked everywhere -externally - for some kind of indicator. The only external wiring problem I could find is where the Mr. Muffler Maniacs moved the O2 senor wire when they were modifying the exhaust - will reroute away from heat and resolder, as they put a crimp connector on it-.
And, I got back into the fuse cabinet where I noticed an incredible number of fuses with twisted, shrinking elements...Hmmm
BTW A long time ago I asked the Board if someone sold a multiple Euro fuse package. No one could think of a supplier. Zoot Allures! Performance Automotion lists 2 seperate sets of 15 fuses one is the new double blade type, 7-10 amp, 3-15 amp, 3-25 amp, 2-30 amp for $5.00. The other is 'our' exposed element, pointed end, Euro type
7-8amp, 5-16amp, 3-25amp for $3.00. Get a couple!
Anyhow, Does anyone know if there is a common controller/relay for the console switches? If so where does it live/hide? Before I tear into the console.
Does anyone know if there is a common point where the console switches crawl into a wire bundle together, and where would that be? Is there a common ground point for the console switches, Where?
It's getting close to the SITO, shARKANSAS run and things are piling up. New tires and alignment, brake pad light came on this past week, clean Pattycakes up. I'd like to have the engine comp. detailed, but I'm worried about the crumbling connector syndrom. So any time savers would be sorely appreciated.
As always thanks in advance.
John S. and Pattycakes
Lucas electrical systems & wiring from the 50's and 60's. " I say old chap, we gave a lot of thought to wiring the new MG, MGB, and Sprite over Tea this morning..."
However, in addition to the mystery short that arose in the Golden Godess - Pattycakes - where my left side fender marker lights would blow a fuse every time I touched the brakes.
This problem though not resolved is at least isolated to the Lamp/Bulb control unit/switch.
Thanks again, Steve C., Max, Snow, others.
Huge help there! Now for the new one...
Mirror, window, sunroof, rear wiper switches were feeling sort of sticky so I disassembled them and cleaned the weapons grade cosmolene out/off of the not so delicate innards. There were 2 types of switches spring/detent BLADE type, and the classic ROCKER contact type with the little spring and ball bearing... "go easy, Leonard ".
These were disassembled and cleaned from the top of the console - thanks to whoever it was that advised Snow awhile back on this - .
The wires/connectors had been thouroughly checked when I did the CD install and had the dash and console apart.
Switches were working fine after the clean up.
So two months later they start acting like they were worn... had to wiggle the switches a bit to make them work. At the same time, I noticed that any of the console switches activated the rear wiper motor. With the engine running the wiper motor goes unheard. The Wiper arm does not and has not moved since the Body Shop returned her to me, the wiper arm drive plate is misaligned by an easy 3/8's of an inch. Shims ain't gonna work here, they must have used a sledge hammer
Additionally, the sunroof was playing the sluggard. I clean the rails top/bottom, fore /aft
and anything that looks like a pivot once a month - look like show chrome when I'm done -then apply a light coat of graphite grease so no problem there. But again, when I push the sun roof switch it is still sluggish, like a cordless drill running out of charge, AND the rear wiper motor activates. Obviously, somewhere in the system I have either a controller for these switches fritzing out or at some point all of the leads overlap and I have a short with the rear wiper motor leads being heavily involved.
I looked everywhere -externally - for some kind of indicator. The only external wiring problem I could find is where the Mr. Muffler Maniacs moved the O2 senor wire when they were modifying the exhaust - will reroute away from heat and resolder, as they put a crimp connector on it-.
And, I got back into the fuse cabinet where I noticed an incredible number of fuses with twisted, shrinking elements...Hmmm
BTW A long time ago I asked the Board if someone sold a multiple Euro fuse package. No one could think of a supplier. Zoot Allures! Performance Automotion lists 2 seperate sets of 15 fuses one is the new double blade type, 7-10 amp, 3-15 amp, 3-25 amp, 2-30 amp for $5.00. The other is 'our' exposed element, pointed end, Euro type
7-8amp, 5-16amp, 3-25amp for $3.00. Get a couple!
Anyhow, Does anyone know if there is a common controller/relay for the console switches? If so where does it live/hide? Before I tear into the console.
Does anyone know if there is a common point where the console switches crawl into a wire bundle together, and where would that be? Is there a common ground point for the console switches, Where?
It's getting close to the SITO, shARKANSAS run and things are piling up. New tires and alignment, brake pad light came on this past week, clean Pattycakes up. I'd like to have the engine comp. detailed, but I'm worried about the crumbling connector syndrom. So any time savers would be sorely appreciated.
As always thanks in advance.
John S. and Pattycakes
06-12-2002, 01:23 PM
#2
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John,
Can't help with the console switch, sorry. But hopefully somebody does. Your post reminded me of some similar problems on my car. Like the rear wiper. Mine will move but will only go from drivers side to passenger side where it stops and the motor keeps on running. Looks like the post is worn enough to prevent full contact with the drive plate. You said something about shims and that might be the answer for me. I was trying to think of an easy way to extend the post.
My sunroof is sluggish too but plan on cleaning and relubing. There were some good threads on this so I feel confident I can get that.
My passenger side window switch is sticky, when engaged it stays engaged till I manually rock it back. Which thread was it that detailed cleaning those?
My back-up lights aren't working either, and I plan on checking the connectors. But last summer I went to check the Bulbs and found that they were stuck/fused in place, though they did look to be good., so I left them there rather than trashing them in order to get them out. What might have caused them to fuse in place like that? Probably the original ones!
Can't help with the console switch, sorry. But hopefully somebody does. Your post reminded me of some similar problems on my car. Like the rear wiper. Mine will move but will only go from drivers side to passenger side where it stops and the motor keeps on running. Looks like the post is worn enough to prevent full contact with the drive plate. You said something about shims and that might be the answer for me. I was trying to think of an easy way to extend the post.
My sunroof is sluggish too but plan on cleaning and relubing. There were some good threads on this so I feel confident I can get that.
My passenger side window switch is sticky, when engaged it stays engaged till I manually rock it back. Which thread was it that detailed cleaning those?
My back-up lights aren't working either, and I plan on checking the connectors. But last summer I went to check the Bulbs and found that they were stuck/fused in place, though they did look to be good., so I left them there rather than trashing them in order to get them out. What might have caused them to fuse in place like that? Probably the original ones!
06-12-2002, 03:45 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
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Ok... I'm in for a group whine on switches, sunroofs, rear hatches, rear wipers. Some, all, none are working at any given time and it seems to be related to the Dow. Or the humidity. Or maybe we're not holding our mouths right. Fortunately, my BWAAAHHH seems pretty reliable.
But seriously, I'd pay good money (is there any other kind?) for a well documented maintenance schedule with parts that show up on a regular basis. None of this wait for it to break, let's get ahead of it and replace things on a scheduled maintenance basis. The big 3 would love us. Wire in a HAL9000..."Dave, there is a 97% that the AE-35 will fail in 24 hours...". Maybe organize wrenching weekends at rotating garages with host garage providing beverages.
Mike LaBranche
84S, blk/blk, AT, needs work: sunroof, hatch...
83 EuroS, weinrot, 5spd, needs: engine assembly
But seriously, I'd pay good money (is there any other kind?) for a well documented maintenance schedule with parts that show up on a regular basis. None of this wait for it to break, let's get ahead of it and replace things on a scheduled maintenance basis. The big 3 would love us. Wire in a HAL9000..."Dave, there is a 97% that the AE-35 will fail in 24 hours...". Maybe organize wrenching weekends at rotating garages with host garage providing beverages.
Mike LaBranche
84S, blk/blk, AT, needs work: sunroof, hatch...
83 EuroS, weinrot, 5spd, needs: engine assembly
06-12-2002, 04:29 PM
#4
Range Master
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Shane,
My passenger side window toggel sticks also. It always has, so I thought it was a "feature". I am tempted to switch the left one for the right one, then I have a "one touch" switch for the toll booths......wha da ya think?
My passenger side window toggel sticks also. It always has, so I thought it was a "feature". I am tempted to switch the left one for the right one, then I have a "one touch" switch for the toll booths......wha da ya think?
06-12-2002, 05:58 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
As far as sticking switches goes, take a close look at the switch cover where it meets the trim of the console towards the rear of the car. I have a nagging problem where the trim is touching the plastic of the switch cover (all 4) and causing it not to return. I have tried a couple of quick fixes but the switch cover always settles back against the trim. I am going to cut into the front of the switch mount and open the rear spring of the switch housing mount a bit so that the switch sits a bit more forward away form the rear trim. We're talkng 1/16" or so, just enough for clearance.
Greg
Greg
06-12-2002, 07:55 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Shane,
Right ... so now I'm the expert!
Here I thought YOU were one of the SPARK GOD's...
This thread is rapidly turning into one of those; Men! WE'll hang alone, or, hang together" deals. THe problem is the hanging part is the only common thread!
Lemme' see heah.
Those bulbs are either corroded in place or heat welded in place... I'm sorry Shane but you'll have to blast.
I'm going to go out on a limb here...ah screw it,
I'll just trot out to Pattycakes for a minute.
I'm back, no problem with removing mine.
The two middle bulbs seem to fit awfully snug though - the plastic case/socket is a tight fit on one and the small - 2nd bulb fom the out side moving inboard has a 4 tabed metal socket insert on the inside of the plastic socket..
After annointing my eyeballs with sand ... I could see up, between the gas tank and rear valance/bumper cover. No way you can reach the bulb from behind unless you pull the assembly - 4 phillips screws and hack a hole in the back side. I don't recommend that procedure, those tail light assemblies will cost you the firstborn.
I would do a little more wiggling, then step up to a spritz of WD-40, wait then more wiggling.
Last resort: break the bulb, stick/jam something in the base push and twist.
I have a venerable set of 7" needle nose pliers that I ground a good bit of the tip off of. They are so thin I can get them on either side of a key broken off even with the lock tumbler. I think the WD-40 is the route to take, when you get them out use some 400 grit wet/dry paper, crocus cloth, or, a fresh greenpad.
The leads for the right assy are behind the tool panel.
Happy Spark chasin'
John 'Thor'
S. and Pattycakes
Lifetime member of Local 1219,
Union of German Spark Chasers
Right ... so now I'm the expert!
Here I thought YOU were one of the SPARK GOD's...
This thread is rapidly turning into one of those; Men! WE'll hang alone, or, hang together" deals. THe problem is the hanging part is the only common thread!
Lemme' see heah.
Those bulbs are either corroded in place or heat welded in place... I'm sorry Shane but you'll have to blast.
I'm going to go out on a limb here...ah screw it,
I'll just trot out to Pattycakes for a minute.
I'm back, no problem with removing mine.
The two middle bulbs seem to fit awfully snug though - the plastic case/socket is a tight fit on one and the small - 2nd bulb fom the out side moving inboard has a 4 tabed metal socket insert on the inside of the plastic socket..
After annointing my eyeballs with sand ... I could see up, between the gas tank and rear valance/bumper cover. No way you can reach the bulb from behind unless you pull the assembly - 4 phillips screws and hack a hole in the back side. I don't recommend that procedure, those tail light assemblies will cost you the firstborn.
I would do a little more wiggling, then step up to a spritz of WD-40, wait then more wiggling.
Last resort: break the bulb, stick/jam something in the base push and twist.
I have a venerable set of 7" needle nose pliers that I ground a good bit of the tip off of. They are so thin I can get them on either side of a key broken off even with the lock tumbler. I think the WD-40 is the route to take, when you get them out use some 400 grit wet/dry paper, crocus cloth, or, a fresh greenpad.
The leads for the right assy are behind the tool panel.
Happy Spark chasin'
John 'Thor'
S. and PattycakesLifetime member of Local 1219,
Union of German Spark Chasers
06-12-2002, 10:48 PM
#7
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Okay, will lube bulbs with wd-40 and wiggle in between TB&WB maintenance. Gretch not a bad idea maybe with a little more use it won't stick. Or we can always do the trim job like Greg suggested. And with regular applications of rain-x who needs a rear wiper anyway! Power God maybe if I see sparks I'll be shutting something down in a hurry with one of them big RED Buttons.
Three days and a wake-up!!!!!!!!
Three days and a wake-up!!!!!!!!
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06-13-2002, 12:59 AM
#8
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Hello
Depending on year and version you have a logic relay powering the windows siting on the main relay board. And rear wiper relay is beside the rear wiper drive.
But it also sounds a bit like you miss good ground somewhere.
The sunroof maybe needs a service ( clean&lube )
If you flip down the unit you will find many grouped connectors where you can check each wire.
The wire colors from your switches should show up.
There is a fuse and relay location sheet taged inside the woodboardcover or sliped inside a clear envelope. Also your manual will show whats up.
You can also find them online; <a href="http://www.928gt.com/928specs/928specs.htm" target="_blank">http://www.928gt.com/928specs/928specs.htm</a>
Yet more helpfull would be to have a full wire shematic but couldn´t find that online.
Grüsse
Depending on year and version you have a logic relay powering the windows siting on the main relay board. And rear wiper relay is beside the rear wiper drive.
But it also sounds a bit like you miss good ground somewhere.
The sunroof maybe needs a service ( clean&lube )
If you flip down the unit you will find many grouped connectors where you can check each wire.
The wire colors from your switches should show up.
There is a fuse and relay location sheet taged inside the woodboardcover or sliped inside a clear envelope. Also your manual will show whats up.
You can also find them online; <a href="http://www.928gt.com/928specs/928specs.htm" target="_blank">http://www.928gt.com/928specs/928specs.htm</a>
Yet more helpfull would be to have a full wire shematic but couldn´t find that online.
Grüsse
06-13-2002, 01:42 AM
#9
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Roland thanks for the reply.
I got the fuse and relay card with my owners manual. Mostly though I have to do a lot of catch up maintenance as the previous six owners did bare minimum if that. The back-up lights have been plagueing me from the start. I would hate to back that beutiful car into something for lack of light. Maybe I'll get a Euro Model with the rear fog light!
I got the fuse and relay card with my owners manual. Mostly though I have to do a lot of catch up maintenance as the previous six owners did bare minimum if that. The back-up lights have been plagueing me from the start. I would hate to back that beutiful car into something for lack of light. Maybe I'll get a Euro Model with the rear fog light!
06-13-2002, 03:46 AM
#10
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Thread Starter
Shane,
Forgot to ask; was the lens sealed properly?
Clean up that foam/rubber seal before the re-install. Make sure the tiny gasket washers are on the lens cover screws as that should prevent water invading the sockets. Goes without saying: clean up the sockets with green pad or 400 grit to include the bulb base ground contact area.
Max is sending a shematic if it gets here in time I'll forward the color code, though you should be able to determine the colors upon inspecting the tool/wiper area where they run. Forgot ... if you are coming to shARKANSS you probably, have the longest drive. I'll compile a mileage list for total shark miles when we get there.
If you run into trouble we'll see what we can do...
Snow is on your mid-range perimeter circle maybe you can beg a phone number out of him with private E-mail - you never know - when you get within 500 miles we might be able to reach you from Northern Arkansas. Take a couple of bottles of Octane Booster with you and some spare fuses cause the State of Podunk covers a lot of ground with few Porsche parts to be found and old gas.
Jeez, What is that? Three time zones? Avoid any travel south of Denver as the Tree Huggers were appealing the Environ 'mental' Impact Statement put out by the Forestry Service for the proposed thinning of New Growth foreest to prevent - of all things - major forest fire's. They have lost 60, 000 acres including the Old Growth forest bordering the contested area. Roast bear, anyone?
If you get edgy about the trip - for mechanical reasons only - cancel! This is supposed to be fun, not a forced march under hardship conditions. And REST!
John S.
Forgot to ask; was the lens sealed properly?
Clean up that foam/rubber seal before the re-install. Make sure the tiny gasket washers are on the lens cover screws as that should prevent water invading the sockets. Goes without saying: clean up the sockets with green pad or 400 grit to include the bulb base ground contact area.
Max is sending a shematic if it gets here in time I'll forward the color code, though you should be able to determine the colors upon inspecting the tool/wiper area where they run. Forgot ... if you are coming to shARKANSS you probably, have the longest drive. I'll compile a mileage list for total shark miles when we get there.
If you run into trouble we'll see what we can do...
Snow is on your mid-range perimeter circle maybe you can beg a phone number out of him with private E-mail - you never know - when you get within 500 miles we might be able to reach you from Northern Arkansas. Take a couple of bottles of Octane Booster with you and some spare fuses cause the State of Podunk covers a lot of ground with few Porsche parts to be found and old gas.
Jeez, What is that? Three time zones? Avoid any travel south of Denver as the Tree Huggers were appealing the Environ 'mental' Impact Statement put out by the Forestry Service for the proposed thinning of New Growth foreest to prevent - of all things - major forest fire's. They have lost 60, 000 acres including the Old Growth forest bordering the contested area. Roast bear, anyone?
If you get edgy about the trip - for mechanical reasons only - cancel! This is supposed to be fun, not a forced march under hardship conditions. And REST!
John S.
06-13-2002, 06:32 PM
#11
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John,
Yep, it had a good seal and all the other light bulbs came out just fine.
I've made that trip before only I did it in my old 924. Went north out of Idaho on Highway 12 to Missoula across Montana where I got a $110 ticket for doing 94 in a 60mph area. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
Dropped down through Casper into Fort Collins Co. where I stayed the night and part of the next day since my starter fried. Bought a new starter for a Plymoth Arrow (Perfect Fit) and made it into Kansas where my exhaust fell down and started shooting sparks out the rear. Borrowed a sign and some wire from the state of Kansas ( off one of the fences keeping animals off the Highway) and wired my exhaust back up. Motored on down to Stillwater, OK. Had a meal at Eskimo Joes got free beer for being from Alaska. Went to I-40 at Oklahoma City and headed West to Albuquerque and stop to see one of my old stomping grounds and an Aunt. Continued west to Kingman AZ and noticed I didn't have any tread left on the rear tires. Bought some descent used ones for $30 and headed north through Vegas, Salt Lake and back into Idaho, where the wires on my new plymoth arrow starter got fried on the exhaust and shorted out my new starter. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> Pushed started the car, drove the rest of the way to Moscow Id and grabbed a plane for Alaska. Once there I mailed the sign that said "Property of the State of Kansas" back to Kansas with a note telling them where I borrowed it from off I-70 Between mile marker such and such, with a big thank you.
Now granted the old 924 isn't as sophisticated as the 928 but I'm a pretty good wrench sometimes and driving is what I love to do. And you're right, if it looks risky I'll cancel but oh what a trip it would be.
Two days and a wake up!!!!!!!!!
Yep, it had a good seal and all the other light bulbs came out just fine.
I've made that trip before only I did it in my old 924. Went north out of Idaho on Highway 12 to Missoula across Montana where I got a $110 ticket for doing 94 in a 60mph area. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
Dropped down through Casper into Fort Collins Co. where I stayed the night and part of the next day since my starter fried. Bought a new starter for a Plymoth Arrow (Perfect Fit) and made it into Kansas where my exhaust fell down and started shooting sparks out the rear. Borrowed a sign and some wire from the state of Kansas ( off one of the fences keeping animals off the Highway) and wired my exhaust back up. Motored on down to Stillwater, OK. Had a meal at Eskimo Joes got free beer for being from Alaska.
Went to I-40 at Oklahoma City and headed West to Albuquerque and stop to see one of my old stomping grounds and an Aunt. Continued west to Kingman AZ and noticed I didn't have any tread left on the rear tires. Bought some descent used ones for $30 and headed north through Vegas, Salt Lake and back into Idaho, where the wires on my new plymoth arrow starter got fried on the exhaust and shorted out my new starter. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> Pushed started the car, drove the rest of the way to Moscow Id and grabbed a plane for Alaska. Once there I mailed the sign that said "Property of the State of Kansas" back to Kansas with a note telling them where I borrowed it from off I-70 Between mile marker such and such, with a big thank you.Now granted the old 924 isn't as sophisticated as the 928 but I'm a pretty good wrench sometimes and driving is what I love to do. And you're right, if it looks risky I'll cancel but oh what a trip it would be.
Two days and a wake up!!!!!!!!!
