Snowball the 81 white 928

my hunter operator said in order to "initialize the machine" he has to raise the car at the outer area of the front lower control arms (between the lower ball joint and the adjuster eccentrics) and at the rear trailing arms in order to spin the tires 3 times. he said this would not have to happen if he had some additional part from hunter at about $6000. he says the suspension will not move and of course that the wheel plates on the machine have ball bearings and are fully movable. he is NOT raising the car from the JACK POINTS. he says there will be no further raising of the car to loosen and adjust the eccentric bolts. i'm in a spot here as this is the MOST reliable alignment guy in town, he is young, bright and well educated. i am also going to "observe" the job. should i be concerned? also, i suggested that he raise each end individually in order to minimize the risk of upsetting the suspension. thursday am, need some answers before then (as if that WON'T happen.)

John Veninger

Not the best way, but will get you close. No matter where he lifts you will get some binding of the suspension.
Have the car put on the alignment rack and measure all four ride height spots. Let him "initialize the machine" and drop the car. Measure the height points again and have him take a ratchet strap and pull the car down till it stays at the correct ride height.

I have been told the Hunter machine can be initialize if you hook up the sensors and just roll the car back on the rack. the cables should be long enough. Most shops won't do this because they first don't believe in the lift issue or don't want to take a chance on the sensors falling off the wheels. Both reasons are BS.
Good luck.

Snowball the 81 white 928

i have also heard about the roll the car back and forth trick but the ride height tip is interesting. pardon if i may appear to be completely moronic, where should those ratchet straps be attached, certainly not across the hood?

Steve Cattaneo

90porsche08
May 4, 1990
Subject: Wheel Alignment Equipment
Model Group

N/A N/A

Part Identifier Number

N/A 9002
Porsche Cars North America, Inc. is pleased to announce through cooperation with the Hunter Engineering Company, its recommendation of the Hill and J111 computerized wheel alignment systems for all Porsche models. In all applications, the selected 111 models (C-J) must be configured for four-wheel alignment only.

For more information on the alignment system, review the attached brochure or contact Hunter Engineering at:

Hunter Engineering Company 11250 Hunter Drive Bridgeton, MO 63044

Telephone number:
(314) 731-3020

Call hunter,porsche recomends them. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Steve J.

Here is my car being aligned on one of the newer Hunter DSP-400 machines. Reflective targets attached to the wheels are seen by infrared cameras linked to the machine's computer. The car is never lifted off the wheels. I was very happy with the results.
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/aligns4.jpg" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/aligns4.jpg</a>

Steve Cattaneo

Front Suspension

Accurate front axle height adjustment is critical to toe-in, camber, and caster adjustments. Ensure tire pressures are at their specified values, fuel tank is full, spare tire is in place, and a weight approximately the same as the driver, positioned on the driver's seat.

AXLE HEIGHT, ADJUST

Fig. 1 Front suspension height check point.




928 Less Adjustable Spring Struts

Measure distance from floor to milled surface of lower control arm mount, Fig. 1. Distance should be 6.6929-7.4803 inches (170-190 mm) with a maximum left to right difference of .3937 inch (10 mm).
Slight adjustment can be made by the installation of spacers underneath the lower spring retainer. Each spacer will increase axle height approximately .3937 inch (10 mm). Never use more than two spacers per spring strut.
If axle height can not be adjusted to specifications with spacers, front springs must be replaced. Springs which have approximately 45 lbs. more spring force for the same test strength will increase front axle height by approximately .1969-.5906 inch (5-15 mm).
928 W/Adjustable Spring Struts

Measure distance from floor to milled surface of lower control arm mount, Fig. 1. Distance should be 6.6929-7.4803 inches (170-190 mm) with a maximum left to right difference of .3937 inch (10 mm).
To adjust axle height, turn adjusting nuts at bottom of spring on strut. With vehicle resting on ground, turn wheels against lock accordingly to gain access to adjusting nuts. Turn nuts clockwise to increase height or counterclockwise to decrease height. The adjusting range for lowering the vehicle is limited by a stop for the adjusting nut on vehicles with Bilstein spring struts. On vehicles with Boge spring struts, the lowest position has been reached when the adjusting nut turns easily.
CAMBER & CASTER, ADJUST

Fig. 3 Front caster & camber adjustment eccentrics.




On vehicles w/aluminum joint carriers, adjust caster and camber by rotating two eccentrics on lower control arm, Fig. 3.
Caster and camber on vehicles w/steel joint carrier is adjusted in same way, but location of caster and camber eccentrics are opposite those shown in Fig. 3.
On vehicles w/aluminum joint carrier, always turn caster eccentric from small caster in direction of large caster. When caster is excessive, first turn the eccentric back completely and then adjust to correct value. If specified caster cannot be obtained, opposite side may be corrected to a value of up to 4°30'.

Rear Suspension

CAMBER, ADJUST

Camber adjustments are made by rotating the inner control arm bushing eccentric bolt.

TOE, ADJUST

Adjust toe by turning eccentric bolt on front control arm mount.

REAR AXLE HEIGHT, ADJUST

Fig. 5 Rear axle height measurement




Measure distance from wheel ground surface to measuring surface on crossmember, Fig. 5. Height should be 6.4173-7.2047 inches (163-183 mm) with a maximum difference of .3937 inch (10 mm) between left and right side.
If height is not within specifications, turn adjusting nut clockwise to raise vehicle or counterclockwise to lower vehicle.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

John Struthers

Snow,
You have done it again... Thanks for approaching this problem before me.
I really wanted the new shocks and springs installed prior to the new tires and alignment.
Simply is not going to happen.
And as I have mentioned before changing the tire pressure from 51 psi in the Dunlops as run by the PO to Porsche recommended air pressures has made my left front tread just ...disappear. No way I could make it to SITO unless the rims were very stout.
So, brake pads this weekend, tires should arrive by tuesday and either the Maniacs who installed the two final(?) versions of the exhaust system will get a shot at alignment or the McLaren F-1,
Diablo wrench who is sitting in the shop bored out of his mind. Local Chev. dealer no longer considered.
In either case the windfall of precise alignment info saves me the trouble of marching thru the archives. Both the Maniacs and Mclaren Wrench asked for all the info I could get...Printing!
Steve C./SteveJ./John V., thanks guys this looks like all bases are covered. A major helping hand!
Steve C, Green stuff is rapidly, fluttering out of my reserves so I may have to jumper until August. I hate doing that but the Bulb Control Unit/Switch is on hold till then. Appreciated the Walk Thru immensely, Max is also helping - above and beyond - with electrical gremlins. I get the Pubs for X'mas!
Snow, and others what's the alignment setting you back? So far, I've got a $250.00^, and a
" I dunno yet ".
John S. and Pattycakes <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Snowball the 81 white 928

john, if you'll be at sito i'll bring my spare bulb control unit and you can swap it out to see if you get any relief. alignment cost, just pull a number out of the air.

Snowball the 81 white 928

WED UPDATE: talked to alignment guy and he said he does NOT have the reflective targets. he said he needs to get one full revolution of the tires in forward direction only. he said we can try to roll car forward up to alignment pads but he doubts there is enough cable length. i am going to chalk mark tire and floor and check distance of one full revolution. of course i could do pi x radius squared of tire but would have to take a nap after the brainwork. he also said we could try the ride height technique and strap the car down following raise/lower. END OF UPDATE.

Ed Ruiz

The shop that did my alignment raised the car from the suspension. I watched the entire procedure, and my springs did not move at all. YMMV. The alignment came out perfectly.

Steve Cattaneo

Called Manhattan Porsche for a 4-Wheel alignment on a 928. They said it would take about 4 hours @ $120 an hour. $480!!! OUCH! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Snowball the 81 white 928

steve, i think i would call levittown louie and compare prices.

i think i will be charged normal alignment fee + surcharge for pita factor = pro'lly 'bout $200.

ed, i may end up using this procedure and appreciate the anecdotal report. if so, hopefully my mileage WON'T vary.

John Struthers

Snow,
How did the alignment go?
I'm still looking at my pile of new rubber... and with the 1500 mile trek coming up I am starting to get edgy. Need the tires on most ricky-tic, but fear the possibility of the dreaded slopeing, tread disease. I imagine you can't wait to smoke a new set of tires, either.
What did you guy's finalize on for procedure?
Any pulling or noticeable wear yet?
When do you depart? Need to know when to move the KH Block 11 out of orbit. <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
Ed,
I know you said the springs didn't visibly, unload. What about the shock's, or would that, in your opinion, matter?
I'm a little paranoid, about the load/unload procedure. Should I get some monster truck strap-binders and keep every thing loaded that way? They don't offer 928 Tire Balancing 101 here in Midland so anecdotal is fine by me - better than nothing-. Time grows short.
TIA
John & Pattycakes

Snowball the 81 white 928

alignment went fine for about $225. did the ed ruiz raise-the-car-by-the-suspension trick and all numbers worked fine... EXCEPT that one prior mech who had the rack off must have missed a spline as wheel is off center and machine said both spindles were straight. going to move steering wheel by a tooth and see what happens. the suspension did settle and move around a bit following the new springs (4000mi ago). gettin' ready for the run (by watching vanishing point.) btw, do you have a cd, do you want a good elvis compilation of some real arcane stuff? let me know jack, i have a new burner and PLENTY of blanks.

John Struthers

Snow,
Last ?.
By suspension...do you mean at the shocks/springs proper?
Elvis... ? I think the last time I saw him was at the South Park Fair grounds - Pittsburgh - the summer of 69', 70', 71' give me a break would you?
It was the dawning of the Age Of Aqarius.
Suffered horrible derisions from my fellow Mill Freaks - Edgar Thompson Works U.S. Steel Corp.
Many road trips ago, PSU, U of WV, U of M,
U of D.......... I have a Masters in Rathskeler Management, Casual Philandering and fitting in where ever I had to when the sun went down.
In any case, it was a good show but if you were a doper ...you knew even then.
What are you offering in the way of 'ARCANE'?
Burn away!!!
Thanks
John S.