Enjoy working on your SHARK?
01-04-2008, 08:25 PM
#46
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Too true! When I tore the flat 6 down for rebuild, it was amazing how much space it all took up. It looked like three motors had exploded.
01-04-2008, 10:30 PM
#48
Craic Head
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Hmmm I think I now know why you are called Dr Bob.....Nurse , nurse count the sponges !! how many hemostats ? Did make me think of the dealer service tech dirty trick where the victim who was rebuilding an engine finds the EXTRA connecting rod nut on the layout table.... as he is nearly done with the engine.
That would be a great thing to find on youtube. Man that is cruel!
01-04-2008, 10:41 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
I heard a story on Pelican where a guy that helps a lot of people build motors carries a new piston circlip and waits unitl heads, cams and such are on before it makes its appearance.
01-04-2008, 11:26 PM
#50
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I've come up with a method for keeping track of all the bits that coe out so I can minimize the bits that might be 'left over' when all is done. I start off with a clean laydown table, separate from the tool table. Everything that comes off the car goes on or under the laydown table. Bolts that hold things on are placed in the holes in the parts that they came from on disassembly. As parts are cleaned, the bolts and bits are cleaned with them and replaced back in those same places. When new parts are sub'd in, old parts are removed from the laydown table. New bolts replace old bolts the same way. We use plastic storage boxes and ziplock bags to help group things when necessary, with masking-tape labels on them. Don't want to mix bolts for the liver with the nuts for the... other parts.
I can tell when I'm done because the laydown table is clean.
Some Other Rules:
-- Always start off with a Plan. The Plan includes WSM pages, tips pages, notes you've gathered, etc. This is your scope of work.
-- Get parts together before you start, so you can work without that day or two in the middle waiting for parts.
-- Develop a relationship with your parts suppliers. Jim B has provided tons of free advice about things, well beyond taking an order for a list of things. That kind of service is invaluable.
-- Know your limitations. It makes no sense to pull a console apart if you don't know how to read a wiring diagram.
On the work itself:
-- Whenever the engine or another critical assembly is opened, shop towels are inventoried before we start, and again before covers go on.
-- Tools NEVER get left on the car, except on the cover/towel across the top of the radiator area. They go to the tool table, and not back to storage until the work session is done. Parts NEVER get get left on the car, they always go to the laydown table.
-- The digital camera is your friend, and a video cam is a present from heaven. You can narrate your comments, hold interesting things up for detailed video 'notes' for later. Or just take pictures for later reference. No matter, when it comes time to reassemble, you can refer to pictures and video and other notes to get things they way they should be or were, whichever is better. Memory is a fleeting thing in the heat of battle.
Last but certainly not least, don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask --before-- you get started on a project or task that you aren't completely comfortable doing. Most of us are more than happy to help. I do cringe and turn away from the "I pulled this out, cut all the wires off, and now nothing seems to work, can anybody help?" requests, but I'm more than happy to help or guide someone through a good way to do something without cutting the wires. Some of us have been known to make housecalls, even. A couple years ago, a new local owner popped up to ask if we could have a timing belt party for his car. So we did. It happens.
I can tell when I'm done because the laydown table is clean.
Some Other Rules:
-- Always start off with a Plan. The Plan includes WSM pages, tips pages, notes you've gathered, etc. This is your scope of work.
-- Get parts together before you start, so you can work without that day or two in the middle waiting for parts.
-- Develop a relationship with your parts suppliers. Jim B has provided tons of free advice about things, well beyond taking an order for a list of things. That kind of service is invaluable.
-- Know your limitations. It makes no sense to pull a console apart if you don't know how to read a wiring diagram.
On the work itself:
-- Whenever the engine or another critical assembly is opened, shop towels are inventoried before we start, and again before covers go on.
-- Tools NEVER get left on the car, except on the cover/towel across the top of the radiator area. They go to the tool table, and not back to storage until the work session is done. Parts NEVER get get left on the car, they always go to the laydown table.
-- The digital camera is your friend, and a video cam is a present from heaven. You can narrate your comments, hold interesting things up for detailed video 'notes' for later. Or just take pictures for later reference. No matter, when it comes time to reassemble, you can refer to pictures and video and other notes to get things they way they should be or were, whichever is better. Memory is a fleeting thing in the heat of battle.
Last but certainly not least, don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask --before-- you get started on a project or task that you aren't completely comfortable doing. Most of us are more than happy to help. I do cringe and turn away from the "I pulled this out, cut all the wires off, and now nothing seems to work, can anybody help?" requests, but I'm more than happy to help or guide someone through a good way to do something without cutting the wires. Some of us have been known to make housecalls, even. A couple years ago, a new local owner popped up to ask if we could have a timing belt party for his car. So we did. It happens.
01-04-2008, 11:39 PM
#51
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01-05-2008, 12:43 AM
#53
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I've given up on the "parts all over the floor" method. An accidental kick sends pieces everywhere. One of those fine folding Cosco tables does the trick for parts, a smaller one for tools. Big stuff lives under the table, protected from that errant foot. Live and learn.
The dr designation was earned just a bit before the 928 was introduced. Had a very early Europa as a dd at the time. It had superseded a 356SC cab that I really wish I still owned. Scalpel, suture, band-aid!
The dr designation was earned just a bit before the 928 was introduced. Had a very early Europa as a dd at the time. It had superseded a 356SC cab that I really wish I still owned. Scalpel, suture, band-aid!
01-05-2008, 01:22 AM
#54
Under the Lift
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01-05-2008, 02:06 AM
#55
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Jason---
you've got a great work ethic in your car trashing---
tag it, bag it, etc....
I do the same thing, probably others do as well.
As I've stated many times before, I didn't buy a "garage queen", nor did I buy one to just "do the required maintenance on".
My enjoyment is working on it, modifying it, changing things to my taste (bad for some, good for others), etc.....
Hopefully, as you have said, the more you work with/on yours, the more you will enjoy it.
--Russ
you've got a great work ethic in your car trashing---
tag it, bag it, etc....
I do the same thing, probably others do as well.
As I've stated many times before, I didn't buy a "garage queen", nor did I buy one to just "do the required maintenance on".
My enjoyment is working on it, modifying it, changing things to my taste (bad for some, good for others), etc.....
Hopefully, as you have said, the more you work with/on yours, the more you will enjoy it.
--Russ
01-05-2008, 04:19 AM
#56
Under the Lift
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Bill thats a great picture, a seemingly small job explodes into a full room.........How many times have you had parts everywhere, and still needed more room for something else that HAD to COME OFF?
I can remember when i had just about the whole leather interior in my livingroom and kitchen for 3 months while the rest of the car was in the shop doing the mechanicals, .........while it was snowing I was scrubbing the multiple assorted leather interior pieces, kinda made me wonder how much storage Porsche had while putting all of the pieces together in the first place
I can remember when i had just about the whole leather interior in my livingroom and kitchen for 3 months while the rest of the car was in the shop doing the mechanicals, .........while it was snowing I was scrubbing the multiple assorted leather interior pieces, kinda made me wonder how much storage Porsche had while putting all of the pieces together in the first place
01-05-2008, 05:07 AM
#57
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I enjoy working on my shark even more when it's done together with other shark owners...
First, it takes the fear away that I might get stuck without the right tool or brute force needed to complete a job.
Second, I can always learn something - how to do something the right way, or simply more easily.
Third, I simply enjoy the company of my shark owner friends. It's wonderful to share the passion! I often wish I could help others as much as they help me.
First, it takes the fear away that I might get stuck without the right tool or brute force needed to complete a job.
Second, I can always learn something - how to do something the right way, or simply more easily.
Third, I simply enjoy the company of my shark owner friends. It's wonderful to share the passion! I often wish I could help others as much as they help me.
01-05-2008, 05:57 AM
#58
Rest in Peace
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One thing that I have noticed about 928 owners is they tend to fall into two groups......those that fix most things themselves...& those that pay someone to do it...... Most of us in rennlist fix it ourselves.....those that pay someone else quickly tire of the large labor bills that are free for us.....then sell the car to someone like us!!
When I got my 928 almost 4 years ago I had minimal mechanical skills......with the help of local 928ers & this forum.....I have learned SO much about 928's in that timeframe.....I take pride in fixing things myself (with help of course)....it gives me a sense of accomplishment!!! Saving the $$$ is nice too
928's are a hobby just like anything else...& like all hobbies they take two things TIME and $$$$
When I got my 928 almost 4 years ago I had minimal mechanical skills......with the help of local 928ers & this forum.....I have learned SO much about 928's in that timeframe.....I take pride in fixing things myself (with help of course)....it gives me a sense of accomplishment!!! Saving the $$$ is nice too
928's are a hobby just like anything else...& like all hobbies they take two things TIME and $$$$
Nah, there was a time when I loved to wrench the weekend away. Sometimes, I still like to do it myself; however, on the really big things, it is easier to pay someone who is qualified. My hands make a living on the keyboard, and I just can not afford to break those tools.
BIG == frame adjustments (bending) for alignment tweaks, drive train conversions, suspension modifications, brake system conversions, body work which requires full stripping and green prep, and ...
I am pretty sure with the purchase price, all parts, and labor to day, I could have bought a car like Charley's.
Cheers,
01-05-2008, 06:00 AM
#59
928 Barrister
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Yup, I work on my 928. Nobody else will do it, so I have to do it. (Well, that's not exactly true, but with my usual situation, I have to work on it.)
I started this madness in high school helping a friend who was a wrench tear apart old cars for fun. I mostly watched and learned. I didn't want to be a wrench, and decided I needed to be rich so I wouldn't have to do it myself. So I went to college. That should do it I reasoned. I must have been drunk. I didn't get rich. I just got a 356 Super coupe halfway through undergraduate school. The engine self destructed about two months later. I lived in the desert in Tucson with wild things in the yard and no garage or tools. But I loved to tinker. I thought I was pretty cool, tinkering with my Porsche and putting on accessories, etc. I must have been drunk.
Later I got a Speedster but I moved to Hawaii for graduate school. What an idiotic thing to do: take a Porsche to Honolulu. I knew I was drunk when I decided to do that. Sheesh!! I took the damned thing apart. I bought another 356 for parts and spare nuts and bolts. I took out the engine all the time and finally it blew up and I sent it to California to be rebuilt into a screaming hotrod engine. Now at that time I was sober; it was a good idea to do that and leave things to someone else. Then I took the body down to bare metal. Ugh! I was not only drunk but sick as well. On Satturday nights, my girlfriend would come home with me. I handed her a magazine (Playboy or something like that I knew she would want to read
) and told her I had only one night in the week to fix my car, and Saturday night was it so please read this and wait until I get things adjusted on my machine and I'll come in later. No wonder I was always drunk....with that attitude I had to be.
Then I really messed up. I bought a new 911E. And took it to Honolulu. Where the **** would anyone drive a car like that in Honolulu? I tinkiered with it. I polished it once a week....really. I adjusted the valves and tinkered somemore but the engine didn't need to come out; it was a new car!! My girlfriend started getting drunk on Saturday nights since I still spent time pampering my machine while she waited for me to exhaust my fetish for it. No one in Honolulu could pronounce or spell PORSCHE 911. Guess what that meant? I still had to do my own work....drunk of course.
But finally I got religion and figured out why I was always drinking: I got rid of my Porshce and took the bus. Really. No more lonely Saturday nights in the garage. I was normal again. I didn't need any tools anymore. I talked to people and actually listened to them. I had money for a change, and no extra car parts laying around....just money to spend. I moved to San Francisco and walked miles and miles for my health. I didn't need any stinkin" Porsche. No one knew me or recognized me anymore. (They probably were happier anyway) And I wasn't drunk.... I had given up drinking. I just took the MUNI buses and BART and got into fights on the bus all the time. I was a happy normal person in the big city. No tools. No grease. No worries. (Well, OK, maybe a few bruises here and there....).
Until my boss said I had to get a car because I couldn't spend any more time taking the bus or taxis. Too many buildings to manage around the city. Ha! I thought I would buy a sensible car. But it wasn't to be. I spotted an ad for an original 914/6 with a hotrod 2.7L engine. JUST the car for the city right? My boss loaned me some money and the deal was made. I needed to get drunk on the spot for doing such a thing. I began buying more and more tools. The engine was easy to take out and fun too, if you didn't drop the ****** thing on your foot. I could do it in 1 1/2 hours no sweat.
Finally, I blew up the 2.7L engine (or rather it self destructed as all mag case 2.7 engines do). I needed a drink. I bought an original 914/6 case and built a 2.0L to use until I could rebuild my 2.7 into a proper RS engine w/MFI. I should have been an alcoholic by this point, but I had sworn off drinking since I got religion ( see above).
Well, I still have all the parts for my hotrod 2.7L engine all in boxes in my garage. You see, a short while after I built the 2.0 liter engine, the car was hit and I suffered a damaged knee. The surgeon said no more stick shift cars with a clutch. I called my friend who was a Porsche dealer and could have any P car he wanted to drive. He told me he was driving a 928. I fell of my chair laughing, until I realized it was impolite to ridicule this guy. He said I should just go drive one and then call him back. I did. Now look at me. I own one. I want another one just in case. And I need a lift and more tools and more time.
But I'm not drunk anymore. My 928 just keeps on going past the 200,000 mile mark. My frined the dealer was right about these cars.
Do I still work on the P cars? Yes. I have to. I don't have any money. My attorney gets it all now. *$#&%$#&!! My mother TOLD me I should have gone to law school. For a couple of years, I tinkered but I also spent a bundle on bringing the 928 up to good operating condition at Devek. It still runs well as a result. I am looking at some serious work on this machine soon. I don't know why though, since it is only 21 years old and has only 200,000 miles on it. Practically new. Now its the steering rack/mm/pan gasket.
That should be fun. I have been able to stay sober because of the efforts of some rennlisters who have intervened when it appeared my crisis situations would be resolved best by their expertise. These include Bill Ball and Sharkskin.
And of course Nicole who keeps telling me I should get a girlfriend to occupy my time on Saturday night rather than fool around with my P car. Some things never change.
At least I'm not drunk.
I started this madness in high school helping a friend who was a wrench tear apart old cars for fun. I mostly watched and learned. I didn't want to be a wrench, and decided I needed to be rich so I wouldn't have to do it myself. So I went to college. That should do it I reasoned. I must have been drunk. I didn't get rich. I just got a 356 Super coupe halfway through undergraduate school. The engine self destructed about two months later. I lived in the desert in Tucson with wild things in the yard and no garage or tools. But I loved to tinker. I thought I was pretty cool, tinkering with my Porsche and putting on accessories, etc. I must have been drunk.
Later I got a Speedster but I moved to Hawaii for graduate school. What an idiotic thing to do: take a Porsche to Honolulu. I knew I was drunk when I decided to do that. Sheesh!! I took the damned thing apart. I bought another 356 for parts and spare nuts and bolts. I took out the engine all the time and finally it blew up and I sent it to California to be rebuilt into a screaming hotrod engine. Now at that time I was sober; it was a good idea to do that and leave things to someone else. Then I took the body down to bare metal. Ugh! I was not only drunk but sick as well. On Satturday nights, my girlfriend would come home with me. I handed her a magazine (Playboy or something like that I knew she would want to read
) and told her I had only one night in the week to fix my car, and Saturday night was it so please read this and wait until I get things adjusted on my machine and I'll come in later. No wonder I was always drunk....with that attitude I had to be.Then I really messed up. I bought a new 911E. And took it to Honolulu. Where the **** would anyone drive a car like that in Honolulu? I tinkiered with it. I polished it once a week....really. I adjusted the valves and tinkered somemore but the engine didn't need to come out; it was a new car!! My girlfriend started getting drunk on Saturday nights since I still spent time pampering my machine while she waited for me to exhaust my fetish for it. No one in Honolulu could pronounce or spell PORSCHE 911. Guess what that meant? I still had to do my own work....drunk of course.
But finally I got religion and figured out why I was always drinking: I got rid of my Porshce and took the bus. Really. No more lonely Saturday nights in the garage. I was normal again. I didn't need any tools anymore. I talked to people and actually listened to them. I had money for a change, and no extra car parts laying around....just money to spend. I moved to San Francisco and walked miles and miles for my health. I didn't need any stinkin" Porsche. No one knew me or recognized me anymore. (They probably were happier anyway) And I wasn't drunk.... I had given up drinking. I just took the MUNI buses and BART and got into fights on the bus all the time. I was a happy normal person in the big city. No tools. No grease. No worries. (Well, OK, maybe a few bruises here and there....).
Until my boss said I had to get a car because I couldn't spend any more time taking the bus or taxis. Too many buildings to manage around the city. Ha! I thought I would buy a sensible car. But it wasn't to be. I spotted an ad for an original 914/6 with a hotrod 2.7L engine. JUST the car for the city right? My boss loaned me some money and the deal was made. I needed to get drunk on the spot for doing such a thing. I began buying more and more tools. The engine was easy to take out and fun too, if you didn't drop the ****** thing on your foot. I could do it in 1 1/2 hours no sweat.
Finally, I blew up the 2.7L engine (or rather it self destructed as all mag case 2.7 engines do). I needed a drink. I bought an original 914/6 case and built a 2.0L to use until I could rebuild my 2.7 into a proper RS engine w/MFI. I should have been an alcoholic by this point, but I had sworn off drinking since I got religion ( see above).
Well, I still have all the parts for my hotrod 2.7L engine all in boxes in my garage. You see, a short while after I built the 2.0 liter engine, the car was hit and I suffered a damaged knee. The surgeon said no more stick shift cars with a clutch. I called my friend who was a Porsche dealer and could have any P car he wanted to drive. He told me he was driving a 928. I fell of my chair laughing, until I realized it was impolite to ridicule this guy. He said I should just go drive one and then call him back. I did. Now look at me. I own one. I want another one just in case. And I need a lift and more tools and more time.
But I'm not drunk anymore. My 928 just keeps on going past the 200,000 mile mark. My frined the dealer was right about these cars.
Do I still work on the P cars? Yes. I have to. I don't have any money. My attorney gets it all now. *$#&%$#&!! My mother TOLD me I should have gone to law school. For a couple of years, I tinkered but I also spent a bundle on bringing the 928 up to good operating condition at Devek. It still runs well as a result. I am looking at some serious work on this machine soon. I don't know why though, since it is only 21 years old and has only 200,000 miles on it. Practically new. Now its the steering rack/mm/pan gasket.
That should be fun. I have been able to stay sober because of the efforts of some rennlisters who have intervened when it appeared my crisis situations would be resolved best by their expertise. These include Bill Ball and Sharkskin.
And of course Nicole who keeps telling me I should get a girlfriend to occupy my time on Saturday night rather than fool around with my P car. Some things never change.
At least I'm not drunk.
01-05-2008, 06:44 AM
#60
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