Plasmatronics Plasma Direct Ignition?
12-17-2007, 12:17 PM
#31
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Not heard of anyone with the Bosch 4`s , that was happy with them..unless anyone knows different??
I curently use those in my wifes car, and they are great ! I`d say they lower the fuel consumption aprox.15% in that car. I`ve used them in an Audi S4 2.2T and they worked great in that one also.
Brett ! I think the ones you had in your S2 was the wrong type
I curently use those in my wifes car, and they are great ! I`d say they lower the fuel consumption aprox.15% in that car. I`ve used them in an Audi S4 2.2T and they worked great in that one also.
Brett ! I think the ones you had in your S2 was the wrong type
Is your wifes car a 928 ???
All the best Brett
12-17-2007, 12:29 PM
#32
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12-17-2007, 12:38 PM
#33
Chronic Tool Dropper
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I ran the +4's in my S4 for a couple years, then swapped them out for the atraight copper plugs in my quest to get the NOx numbers into the "pass" range. The car seemed to run fine with them, but really no better than the fresh set of copper plugs I put in.
Bosch readily admits that their four-prong plugs are intended to help new car manufacturers meet the US 100k mile emissions warranty requirements without having to change any plugs. That's it! No extra performance available, no better mileage claims, just longer life. Meanwhile, I pull the plugs for a look-see every year or two, so a 100k plug means les to me than it does to Mercedes or Opel since my warranty requirements are so different. In some performace applications, there's a trend towards indexing plugs so the open side of the electrode faces the intake valves. Plugs are carefully selected, and fitted to individual cylinders so they all face the correct direction once installed. With the 4+, there is no "open side", although one could argue that there is an "open end" facing the piston. Is there a net effect on performance or fuel consumption? Watch fuel flow, exhaust and combustion temps, and the knock sensor to see if there is a real benefit.
Randy--
Is there a reason why "trucker hat" has not received the standard warning shot across the bow, followed by the DanglerB Memorial Cannonball to the waterline? Obvious commercial promo, obviously not reading any of the actual responses posted to his messages, etc. Glub-glub until his hat floats. It's a tradition that shouldn't be forgotten.
Bosch readily admits that their four-prong plugs are intended to help new car manufacturers meet the US 100k mile emissions warranty requirements without having to change any plugs. That's it! No extra performance available, no better mileage claims, just longer life. Meanwhile, I pull the plugs for a look-see every year or two, so a 100k plug means les to me than it does to Mercedes or Opel since my warranty requirements are so different. In some performace applications, there's a trend towards indexing plugs so the open side of the electrode faces the intake valves. Plugs are carefully selected, and fitted to individual cylinders so they all face the correct direction once installed. With the 4+, there is no "open side", although one could argue that there is an "open end" facing the piston. Is there a net effect on performance or fuel consumption? Watch fuel flow, exhaust and combustion temps, and the knock sensor to see if there is a real benefit.
Randy--
Is there a reason why "trucker hat" has not received the standard warning shot across the bow, followed by the DanglerB Memorial Cannonball to the waterline? Obvious commercial promo, obviously not reading any of the actual responses posted to his messages, etc. Glub-glub until his hat floats. It's a tradition that shouldn't be forgotten.
12-17-2007, 01:57 PM
#34
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It takes a lot of energy to make that gas, but Iceland has a lot of geothermal and hydroelectric energy. The idea is that you store the energy as water and a battery rather than a tank of gas (or hydrogen.) Since Iceland cannot sell electricity to Europe or the North America they might as well find some interesting uses for it that is nice and clean, and then import less oil and gas.
But as for burning or igniting water like you would a flammable liquid? nope.
Water is already burnt.
-Joel.
12-17-2007, 06:26 PM
#35
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12-17-2007, 06:53 PM
#36
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Ah ..."It seems to me that 4 sparks instead of just one .." generally speaking only one of the four gets a spark at any one time .... And the spark only needs to be good enough , trying to make it better is pointless so to speak
12-17-2007, 07:15 PM
#37
Drifting
12-17-2007, 07:47 PM
#39
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I have had considerable experience with various Woodward engine management systems, but none with this product. The home-page claim of being a large independent... is overshadowed by a very large GE stake in the company. GE's interest is in the turbine controls for some of the smaller aeroderivative engines. GE also bought Don Bentley's operation in Nevada a few years ago to capture a lot of the vibration and rotating-equipment dynamics technology owned by Bentley, so there's a very solid background in the family. Lots of smart people, that's for sure
All that said, they still don't have a plasma ignition system. They are looking at an doing real-time analysis of the amounts of energy needed to start a spark under various conditions in the chamber. That's a far cry from the claims made in the original post here.
All that said, they still don't have a plasma ignition system. They are looking at an doing real-time analysis of the amounts of energy needed to start a spark under various conditions in the chamber. That's a far cry from the claims made in the original post here.
12-17-2007, 09:23 PM
#40
Three Wheelin'
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Hi Ketil
I have used Bosch Quads in other cars as well...and they have seemed fine..
But my 928 didn't like them under any conditions....about 6 months after removing them, I put them back in....the car just felt horrible...slight miss (although my Snap-On timing light couldn't tell which cylinder was missing)...
I took them out again....and car ran fine again....not sure why 928s (or mine at least) didn't like them but it didn't...
All the best Brett
12-18-2007, 02:41 PM
#41
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12-18-2007, 03:39 PM
#42
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The theory (as explained by a Bosch rep) is that the (single) spark goes to the electrode with the lowest resistance. So, if the plug just fired and the ngative electrode at 12 o'clock was the one it fired to, that one would then have slightly higher resistance and the next spark would go to one of the other ones. I do know that they made a differance in a Volvo 240 turbo I had, but I also know some engines absolutely hate them. Toyota coil on plug engines can't stand them, and can burn up coils. ( I had TWO customer claims based on this)
Any benefit is going to be derived from the more "open" design, kinda like indexing.
I manage a Parts store, so I hear alot of feedback on the stuff we sell, plus I try out most of the fancy new stuff myself.
Any benefit is going to be derived from the more "open" design, kinda like indexing.
I manage a Parts store, so I hear alot of feedback on the stuff we sell, plus I try out most of the fancy new stuff myself.
12-18-2007, 04:23 PM
#43
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4 electrode plugs should last longer if not fouled. It will take longer to erode the gap(s) as the spark will tend to jump the smallest one and thus wear them out more or less equally.
My Audi A8 recently got a plug change, it had $11 each platinum 4-electrode plugs as OEM. I put traditional plugs in, I do not like to leave the plugs in so long as to warrant having that long wearing ability. I'll have them out again in a few years for one reason or another I'm sure. I also worry about how difficult it can be to get the plugs out without damaging the threads after many many years. The plugs that came out were probably in there for 100K miles and looked like they were in decent shape if a bit dirty.
-Joel.
My Audi A8 recently got a plug change, it had $11 each platinum 4-electrode plugs as OEM. I put traditional plugs in, I do not like to leave the plugs in so long as to warrant having that long wearing ability. I'll have them out again in a few years for one reason or another I'm sure. I also worry about how difficult it can be to get the plugs out without damaging the threads after many many years. The plugs that came out were probably in there for 100K miles and looked like they were in decent shape if a bit dirty.
-Joel.
12-18-2007, 04:37 PM
#44
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Ah yes ..."what do you need 4 for then ..." that is the point . You do not need 4 or a Y or three or any other number of variants which have been tried over the last 100 years or so !
12-18-2007, 04:51 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
Actually you don't need any of them! An F1 plug has only an electrode sitting there in the middle, the sparks occur between it and the outer body of the plug, they are a smaller diameter body though so the spark doesn't have far to jump.
