Chuck Z

I agree that it seems like a lot of these cars are selling for less than in years past. If you look at the BJ site you can see all the final sale prices. This Nomad went for $54k which is probably a lot less than they had into it. Was a beautiful car as it passed across the stage - this pic doesn't do it justice.

hacker-pschorr

I'm hoping we are seeing the last of "retro-rods" selling for more than survivors or accurately restored cars. I really hope the fake HEMI's and other Big Block "clones" start to drop in value.

IMO the survivors should be at the top end of the scale. At BJ they seam to be at the bottom.

Imo000

You mean like this guy:

largecar379

not entirely so, Hack......

Carrol Shelby's "King Cobra" brought $5 million last year. no other Cobra (replica) has come anywhere close to that.....

the original, un-restored/restored HEMI cars (not clones) have nearly always brought more money.

But don't look for the "clone" prices to come down either. Problem is the bodies are not available for restorations, as their numbers (non-HEMI) are dwindling as well.

My Mopar restoration guy (he's going to paint my 928) has several resto candidates at his shop. The last clone he did was a convertible 'Cuda (originally an 318 ci car). He did the resto, dropped in a HEMI crate motor, sold it 9 months later (after start of the resto) for $125K. The last numbers matching 440 Superbird he did went for just over $225K.

Example of one he's doing right now:

1970 Dodge Challenger R/T, numbers matching 440 auto, PS/PB (disc), 3.73 suregrip (8.75 rear). nothing extraordinary about it, don't like the color (bronze), and the car needs a huge amount of work. the motor is locked up, the body is, well....full of rust, and the interior is beyond saving. it needs a full rotisserie resto.

current price? Try $15K.

cost to do the resto? near $60K.

time involved? probably a year....

value when done? at least $80K to $100 plus.......maybe more.

(and yes, he's already got a buyer------)

with the economy going in the tank, the money is going even further into assets like collector cars, gold, and commodities.......

It just drives the prices even higher.


--Russ

worf928

Correct. But, I suspect that enough of them are sitting on cash positions waiting to gobble up some relatively cheap investments rather than expensive toys.

hacker-pschorr

I never said it was a rule, but it is happeneing. There have been plenty of clones that sold for more than the "real" cars at BJ. HEMI"s, Camaro's, Corvette's (not as much) etc.....

The SuperSnake is a bad example since it's a one of a kind (not for long) 100% real Shelby Cobra.

The ultra rare cars like COPO or Yenko cars? No, not those.

The retro-rods are the big suprise. Some of those have sold for big $$$ even with non original chassis or body's. Hell, they are just replicas!!!

bronto

However with the dollar being as low as it is, this should be offset by Europeans looking for deals.

Charley B

Collector cars, of all types, traditionally take a big hit when the economy gets resessionary. Why would it be different this time?

JPTL

I agree with you Charley. I don't see American Musclecars holding at their overvalued prices for too much longer - particularly clones. Many people made a killing on the frenzy that took place over the past few years - particularly w/the Mopars. Many never come back. Remember when you couldn't touch a decent E-Type Roadster for anything under $50k? Now the same car can be had for 1/2of that. Remember when Beetle convertibles were way overpriced as well?
Although conservative money tends to go to gold when the economy takes a downturn, I don't see it going into collectible anything - particularly cars. I see it going out.
I think that Russ' resto. guy is lucky if he has a buyer for his R/T. If he's looking at doing anything near a $60k resto. he'd be smart to get that buyer's money up front.
Just my .02 (which is worth about .0162 in today's economy)

cobalt

Well considering there are more millionaires then ever before. Hell 79% of all people living in New Jersey are millionaires. Most people I know who collect cars have not thought twice about buying something new just because they needed something to occupy their time. This economy may effect the average joe but for the most part people that can throw large amounts of money around I find could care less what the economy is doing.

Charley B

How could that be? 53% of the people living in new Jersey are under the age of 18.

Millionaires don't get to be millionaires without learning an acute sense of value. There hasn't been a down turn in the economy in the last hundered years that didn't result in the value of gold going up and the value of collectable cars going down.

cobalt

OK correct me. 79% of all income earning adults in New Jersey are millionaires. You might also correct that and say there hasn't been a down turn in the economy in the 20th century. the 21st century is a new frontier and although I know of some people hurting on Wall Street because their bonus is less than 2 million vs previous years it still doesn't stop them from spending.

I know of several serious collectors here in NJ. I have seen cars like CGT's Ferrari F360 stradales, F430's, F40's, F50's, 94 turbo S's amongst numerous other cars change hands in the past 2 months alone. Some of these cars going for well above $500k. If anything the collectors I know are taking advantage of those who over extended themselves and I see no end in sight.

Charley B

Huh?

hacker-pschorr

IMO there is a difference between the true, 100% rare cars and "the rest" that got caught up in the frenzy. Certain cars like GT350's, Yenko, some HEMI's, most vintage Corvette's etc..... will hold some if not most of their value.

What I see tanking are the "other" cars that were bought for stupid money by people who either could not tell the difference between their car and the real one, or they simply do not care.

As for the E-type, I would like to see a 100 point concourse car for $25,000. It's not happeneing unless there is some strange circumstances. Hell, even a 9 out of 10 car isn't going to sell for that. $25k e-type is your average driver. Yes some of those drivers sold for stupid money - chalk it up to uneducated buyers. Or better yet, people who have enough money not to sell. There will always be people like this at auctions.

The $2 million Cuda Convertible sent everyone into a tizzy. Why? It's one of 14 ever built.
The Shelby Daytona Coupes, last one sold was $6 million and in todays money expect to top $10. Only 6 of those were ever built (well five, but there are six now) people do not seam to flintch when a car "like this" goes for huge money.

A lot of the people who paid "too much" for the fake cars do not care. They are later in life, not buying for investment and will probably die with the car.

cobalt

I think it is pretty clear. Go back just 10 years and the number of people with large liquid assets was relatively small compared to today. Although the economy is showing signs of a down turn most places there is relatively little signs of it here. Housing hasn't come down in price although the homes are taking longer to sell. People are still buying new cars everywhere you turn and nobody seems to be concerned over gas prices still buying big V8's.

As far as collectors go I don't see a significant enough down turn to scare them off yet. But only time will tell.