Huntley Racing Supercharger is Powerfull!!
01-08-2002, 02:30 PM
#16
Racer
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I have an '82 928 that I could part with for a month or two. Are you guys going to be addressing the 16v engines?
>>>Yes, the 16V cars are in the plans to but as I have mentioned they will need an injection change too.
If so, give me an address, and I'll have the car sent over!
John Welch
'88 951
'87 928 S4
'82 928
>>>Give us a call if you want to get going on this.
--------------------
John Welch
'88 951
'87 928 S4
'82 928 for sale (cheap)
'63 girlfriend, (she's older than I thought)
>>>Yes, the 16V cars are in the plans to but as I have mentioned they will need an injection change too.
If so, give me an address, and I'll have the car sent over!
John Welch
'88 951
'87 928 S4
'82 928
>>>Give us a call if you want to get going on this.
--------------------
John Welch
'88 951
'87 928 S4
'82 928 for sale (cheap)
'63 girlfriend, (she's older than I thought)
01-08-2002, 02:45 PM
#17
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Why can't these motors make 600+ HP? They can and do. We have lots of experience building big displacement motors that can make well over 1000 HP with turbocharging. It is all a matter of money.
01-08-2002, 02:50 PM
#18
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We need cars to use for the prototyping of this kit. If you are interested you will get one of two kits (Stage I or Stage II), instalation, extensive dyno tuning, and the first on the block to have one! Motronic cars will run $6500 for a prototype kit. Early cars will be more since they will require a fuel injection change. The cars will make no less than a 40% gain in HP for the Stage I kit and much more for the Stage II. If you are interested please contact me personally either via e-mail or phone, thanks.
P.S. We only need a couple of cars!
P.S. We only need a couple of cars!
01-09-2002, 12:29 AM
#19
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This is all too funny.....
Someone get that......Call me the third or fourth time you really romp on it and tell me how much of your engine blew out the top of your hood!!!
S.Hunter
cyber5-0@swbell.net
87 928 S4
Someone get that......Call me the third or fourth time you really romp on it and tell me how much of your engine blew out the top of your hood!!!
S.Hunter
cyber5-0@swbell.net
87 928 S4
01-09-2002, 02:12 AM
#20
Huntley Racing,
"Interesting post!
I was particularly intersted in the MAP sensor conversion.........
1: Our current flow meter incorporates the fuel pump switch that keeps the pump on after start-up. Would that system be defeated all together or would you find an alternate method of keeping the pump on while driving and turning it off in the absence of air flow?"
I will keep everything stock that I can. A fuel pressure regulator should do the trick of returning the fuel to the gas tank when the fuel is not needed.
"2: Since the charger would alter intake pressures (and thus fuel pressure), do you think that the resulting higher fuel pressure would provide enough fuel with the standard injection maps for part throttle operation? (This is more a factor for older cars that can't have the chips reworked)"
I'm using a complete engine management system and converting my car from CIS to electronic fuel injection. So, I will not use any standard injection maps, except for start-up?, on my engine because there is nothing on my engine that is standard.
"All the cars will require more fuel pressure as well as mapping changes which means the early CIS cars are going to need a complete injection change."
Yep, the entire injection system is being changed. I'm using the intake, fuel rails, and injectors from an '85 Euro S. Since a 944 turbo, that uses the same injectors, is good for 300 hp on four injectors without any injector changes I should be good on fuel up to 600 hp. I
"3. As Randy aptly pointed out, cost and level of kit comleteness are keys factors for me.
I'd ike to know more.
>>>Cost is unknown just yet but likely in the $6000-$7000 range for a complete bolt-on kit."
Wait a minute, I've already done the hard work. All you have to do is mount the supercharger under the plenum and move the location of the throttle body. Hardly worth $6000-$7,000. Hell, I've already spent $3,500 on the engine management system and fuel injection, not yet installed or tuned, so if I didn't have the set-up in place would the cost be $9,500-$10,500 + fuel mapping?
Jim Nowak
"Interesting post!
I was particularly intersted in the MAP sensor conversion.........
1: Our current flow meter incorporates the fuel pump switch that keeps the pump on after start-up. Would that system be defeated all together or would you find an alternate method of keeping the pump on while driving and turning it off in the absence of air flow?"
I will keep everything stock that I can. A fuel pressure regulator should do the trick of returning the fuel to the gas tank when the fuel is not needed.
"2: Since the charger would alter intake pressures (and thus fuel pressure), do you think that the resulting higher fuel pressure would provide enough fuel with the standard injection maps for part throttle operation? (This is more a factor for older cars that can't have the chips reworked)"
I'm using a complete engine management system and converting my car from CIS to electronic fuel injection. So, I will not use any standard injection maps, except for start-up?, on my engine because there is nothing on my engine that is standard.
"All the cars will require more fuel pressure as well as mapping changes which means the early CIS cars are going to need a complete injection change."
Yep, the entire injection system is being changed. I'm using the intake, fuel rails, and injectors from an '85 Euro S. Since a 944 turbo, that uses the same injectors, is good for 300 hp on four injectors without any injector changes I should be good on fuel up to 600 hp. I
"3. As Randy aptly pointed out, cost and level of kit comleteness are keys factors for me.
I'd ike to know more.
>>>Cost is unknown just yet but likely in the $6000-$7000 range for a complete bolt-on kit."
Wait a minute, I've already done the hard work. All you have to do is mount the supercharger under the plenum and move the location of the throttle body. Hardly worth $6000-$7,000. Hell, I've already spent $3,500 on the engine management system and fuel injection, not yet installed or tuned, so if I didn't have the set-up in place would the cost be $9,500-$10,500 + fuel mapping?
Jim Nowak
01-09-2002, 11:36 PM
#21
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For your application the manifold, supercharger, bypass valves, custom TB mount, modified linkage, remounted sensors, modified cross brace etc... would run $4000 to $5000 or so. Hope this helps.
01-10-2002, 12:37 AM
#22
USMarine
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Originally posted by DaveW:
<STRONG>If a 944 engine is basically half a 928 engine how come the tuning potential of a 928 seems to be lower (as a % increase) than the 944? There seem to be many racing/tuning shops tweaking 944's into the 300-350Hp range so why don't we see 600-700Hp 928's? DaveW</STRONG>
<STRONG>If a 944 engine is basically half a 928 engine how come the tuning potential of a 928 seems to be lower (as a % increase) than the 944? There seem to be many racing/tuning shops tweaking 944's into the 300-350Hp range so why don't we see 600-700Hp 928's? DaveW</STRONG>
Yep Dumb question... the Devek white car "NORMALLY ASPIRATED" makes over 575HP as does Mark Andersons, Don Hansons, and others. Sterling...what are you getting out of that VarioCam?
BTW, new twin turbo Devek car will make more than 750 ponies easily.
01-10-2002, 06:46 PM
#23
Derrek,
If you can do the conversion for $4000, sign me up. I'll need a few months to save but I'm in if you can guarantee the results.
I will dyno the car when I'm finished with my current mods so I will have a nice base line. Engine builder, from Devek, thinks the car will dyno at 320+ RWHP after recent mods. Based on your performance figures for a 944 2.5L engine, I should see around 560 RWHP on my 5.4L after the conversion on 5lb of boost?
Jim Nowak
If you can do the conversion for $4000, sign me up. I'll need a few months to save but I'm in if you can guarantee the results.
I will dyno the car when I'm finished with my current mods so I will have a nice base line. Engine builder, from Devek, thinks the car will dyno at 320+ RWHP after recent mods. Based on your performance figures for a 944 2.5L engine, I should see around 560 RWHP on my 5.4L after the conversion on 5lb of boost?
Jim Nowak
01-12-2002, 06:51 PM
#24
Drifting
Not seen anything new on this thread for a day or two, and was wondering if any of you brave and financially secure folks had volunteered the services of your car and checkbook to Huntley Racing??? Remember, it's for the good of all of us who follow!!!!! 
01-14-2002, 02:45 AM
#25
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We have had a huge number of replys and calls with at least a couple who have shown a desire to do some 'beta' testing for us. Basically we have all the general layout and part lists done. We need an 2V and a 4V car for manifold prototyping thats it. It looks like we have our 2V car but we may take two especially if one is late vs early. We need an S4 and hopfully a GT or GTS too. If interested please contact us quickly to fill the spots.
01-14-2002, 02:48 AM
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Generally HP gains for these kits will run 40% to 70% over the base HP of the motor. To make a 70% gain you must have a low enough compression ratio to run high boost levels as well as the strength to take such gains. On average most higher commression cars can take 4-5 PSI of boost without undo strain or risk of detonation.
01-14-2002, 08:31 PM
#27
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You can expect to see about 375-400 HP at the crank of an Early shark on 8-9 psig of "boost". I know because this is what my car makes running two IHI RHB turbochargers, air research intercooler and modified fuel system. My engine inners are bone stock. The car runs VERY nicely on 5 lbs of boost. The 944 is the better car to make these kind of changes to......engines are cheaper and easier to work on.
01-15-2002, 01:49 PM
#29
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Jim,
Mine is a 4.5 liter. A stock 1981 928 S with turbos bolted on. Now, granted, my fuel management system sucks (for lack of a better word), and I know I am giving up about 30-50 HP on the top end due to a rich mixture (can't burn it all). I don't want to lean it out too much for fear of detonation......I'm right at the limit at 8.5 psig of boost. As for the HP, no I have never done a dyno run, but based on the performance as compared to a 928 S4 and 928 GTS, I am putting my estimate at 375-400 HP at the flywheel. Reeves Callaway has told me this is where the power probably is. Mid range torque is awesome! The car will run 105+ MPH through the 1/4 mile and get to 60 in about 5.3 seconds. If I was at square one with doing something like this, I would do the low boost supercharger option in a heartbeat over the turbochargers. It is a very complex task to turbocharge a normally aspirated car, but the centrifugal blowers make it an easy job. My vote would be to do a 944 NA with the supercharger. You can pick a car up for peanuts and have a blast......probably for under $6000.00 If you would see the amount of work done to install the turbochargers on my car, you would be amazed. New exhaust manifolds, many feet of pipe, relocated air flow meter, scavenger pump system, intercooler, full custom exhaust, the list goes on and on. Callaway made some very fast cars, but if they are maintained in the wrong shop, they easily turn into granades........for example tinker with just one adjustment and it is all over for you. Let me give you an example.....my car runs cold plugs to avoid detonation. I replaced my coil with a new one from Bosch. It was a hotter coil than the original. Direct replacement from the books however.........the car ran great under NA conditions, switch to boost and it bucked like a mechanical bull. I put the old coil back on and it ran fine. That is how sensitive one thing can be when you make these kinds of mods. Fortunately I have been very lucky with my car. The first car they did suffered from crushed piston lands, and two more were dismantled or destroyed. Like I said, somebody tinkers with timing, boost levels, etc., and it is all over. My suspicion is that these cars were run under high boost levels at one point. Remember, the early sharks run CAST pistons that really aren't designed to take the loads of turbocharging. Nonetheless I would feel safe bolting on a 5 psig option onto a 928 motor with the 8.2-8.5:1 compression range. Over that you may start to see some problems. Heck I have even considered doing the low boost option on my 1983 944. Good luck!
Mine is a 4.5 liter. A stock 1981 928 S with turbos bolted on. Now, granted, my fuel management system sucks (for lack of a better word), and I know I am giving up about 30-50 HP on the top end due to a rich mixture (can't burn it all). I don't want to lean it out too much for fear of detonation......I'm right at the limit at 8.5 psig of boost. As for the HP, no I have never done a dyno run, but based on the performance as compared to a 928 S4 and 928 GTS, I am putting my estimate at 375-400 HP at the flywheel. Reeves Callaway has told me this is where the power probably is. Mid range torque is awesome! The car will run 105+ MPH through the 1/4 mile and get to 60 in about 5.3 seconds. If I was at square one with doing something like this, I would do the low boost supercharger option in a heartbeat over the turbochargers. It is a very complex task to turbocharge a normally aspirated car, but the centrifugal blowers make it an easy job. My vote would be to do a 944 NA with the supercharger. You can pick a car up for peanuts and have a blast......probably for under $6000.00 If you would see the amount of work done to install the turbochargers on my car, you would be amazed. New exhaust manifolds, many feet of pipe, relocated air flow meter, scavenger pump system, intercooler, full custom exhaust, the list goes on and on. Callaway made some very fast cars, but if they are maintained in the wrong shop, they easily turn into granades........for example tinker with just one adjustment and it is all over for you. Let me give you an example.....my car runs cold plugs to avoid detonation. I replaced my coil with a new one from Bosch. It was a hotter coil than the original. Direct replacement from the books however.........the car ran great under NA conditions, switch to boost and it bucked like a mechanical bull. I put the old coil back on and it ran fine. That is how sensitive one thing can be when you make these kinds of mods. Fortunately I have been very lucky with my car. The first car they did suffered from crushed piston lands, and two more were dismantled or destroyed. Like I said, somebody tinkers with timing, boost levels, etc., and it is all over. My suspicion is that these cars were run under high boost levels at one point. Remember, the early sharks run CAST pistons that really aren't designed to take the loads of turbocharging. Nonetheless I would feel safe bolting on a 5 psig option onto a 928 motor with the 8.2-8.5:1 compression range. Over that you may start to see some problems. Heck I have even considered doing the low boost option on my 1983 944. Good luck!
05-03-2002, 07:17 AM
#30
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Hi guys,
Reading your interesting discussion how to get most possible power, I am 'sitting back' and wondering:
“What are this super guys doing for preventing detonation caused of oil from the crank house ventilation coming into the combustions chambers when running at high RPM (The Devek oil pumping theory)
· Are you making any change to the vent system, and if yes ………..?
See also Glyn’s :”Early 928 race engines” and mine: “Detonation and broken piston rings” here on this discussion forum
Regards from Erik in Denmark
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Reading your interesting discussion how to get most possible power, I am 'sitting back' and wondering:
“What are this super guys doing for preventing detonation caused of oil from the crank house ventilation coming into the combustions chambers when running at high RPM (The Devek oil pumping theory)
· Are you making any change to the vent system, and if yes ………..?
See also Glyn’s :”Early 928 race engines” and mine: “Detonation and broken piston rings” here on this discussion forum
Regards from Erik in Denmark
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">