928ntslow

I am getting the bugs worked out of the Euro I had picked up. Aside from all of the interior sorting, I received the car in just barely running condition. Engine was full of sludge, leaking everywhere, not idling properly, couldn't rev it, overheating and vapor coming from the exhaust just for starters.

I pressure washed the top and bottom so I could see where to start on the leaks, needless to say I HATE working on a greasy engine! I found the disty cap nipple for the coil lead was broken and the plugs trashed. Got new plugs, cap and rotor. Also got a new thermostat and cap. Trimmed the bad ends off of the water hoses and pulled the old thermostat. What I had removed was the thermostat frame. HUH!?! The guy must have figured it was a bad thermostat and yanked it like on a Chebby, gutted it and stuck it back in to make a seal.

I pulled the WUR and cleaned that out. After doing all of these things, the car now fires right up and revs nicely with no hesitation at all. I also found oil dripping all over the exhaust manifold and was smoking like crazy. It turned out to be the right cam seal. Replaced the gasket on that and was one step closer to a super running Euro. I even dumped in a quart of Rislone (I swear by that stuff for older engines) and a bottle of Berrymans B21 in the gas tank.

So, the issue that I have, is the overheating part. When the car is warmed up, the gauge rises slowly up to 10:00 to 10:30. I revved it a few times and it dropped back to 9:00. Let it run some more and it rose again...then it fell back to 9:00. It did this four times in the course of 15-20 minutes. I thought I had a circulation issue and there was air trapped in the system, but I think I got that taken care of when I refilled the cooling system.

This is my first experience with a CIS engine. Has anyone got a clue to point me in the right direction on this? Could it be the WUR??? BTW, it looks like our friends at the DOT hooked up some funny wiring when they "statesided" the car with a wire running to the WUR..intake side I believe.

Also, do I need all of that added stuff the DOT added way back when? The car has a cat with an O2 sensor. Could this be part of the issue for the fluctuation in the engine heating? Ken in Portland said the timing could be the problem too, but that was the other day when I couldn't even get the thing running.

Lastly, vapor is coming out of the exhaust. It looks like when you start your car in the cold and the white vapors rise from the exhaust. This hasn't gone away, but then again, I haven't run the car for too long yet or have taken it for a drive. I thought maybe the car overheated enough to warp a head. I checked the oil and no sign of water at all...I checked the cooling system with no sign of oil either. However, when I put the Rislone in tonight, I cleaned out the oil canister screen. At the vent tube to the top, there was a creamy coloration like water did mix with the oil. I tend to think this is probably condensation from the car not being driven for a while and quite possible some water getting into the engine when I had pressure washed it. The previous owner said it blew white smoke until it warned up though. I think he meant vapor. I put my hand by it and it is definitely moist exhaust. The car runs great now though with no sputters or misses. Ideas here?

jpitman2

You will a way to check mixture for lean, and a pressure gauge set to test for control pressure at WUR - JC Whitneys do one ~$60. Plug colour should tell you something about mixture state. Does it drive OK? If it has Very poor power, suspect its gone lean due to high control pressure - hot control should be ~ 45-50 psi, system 75. Several connections in CIS have very fine brass gauze filters in them (wur inlet, fuel distributor head etc) which should be checked as they can mess up the pressures.
If it has a viscous coupled fan, check that its driving well when hot. If it gets hot idling but is ok cruising, problem is air flow. If it gets hot cruising, faster=hotter, suspect lean mixture, or retarded spark. I run my 83 CIS a couple of degrees advanced over specs with no temp issues. Best book on this is Ben Watson on Bosch injectio, Amazon, $15.
jp 83 Euro S AT 51k

SMTCapeCod

John is a great source of info- he, Dennis Wilson and a few others are tremendous assetts to the CIS e-community.
As John mentioned, I've noticed that my car is sensitive to fuel mixture and will run warmer when too lean. In addition, the clutch fans can get weaker over time- you've probably read about that elsewhere on other models. Does the electric fan come on? Could be you need a new coolant temp switch for the fan.
There are rumors, or were, that some 928s were federalized to KE-jetronic which uses an 02 sensor to trim the fuel mixture a little by way of a frequency valve-- if you have such a setup there should be a electronic control in the passenger footwell and a plug on under the fuel distributor.
As for 'funny wiring' to the WUR, would take a picture or some additional description to figure out what's going on there.
Also be advised- or you may know already, that the berryman's and similar treatments can help clear clogs in some components, but they can also take some of the varnish and sediment out of the tank and move it into the fuel delivery stream-- causing more clogs and issues. Given how it was, you'll probably have to be vigilant with fuel filter changes.
Also- among the many screens in the system that tend to clog, one is located in a brass union at the fuel line to the fuel distributor. It has extremely fine mesh that clogs/corrodes over time. Would be a good precaution to change that.

SMTCapeCod

oh, and the vapor- I think the metal intakes due accumulate condensation, but these 16V heads have a bit of a track record for corrosion that allows the coolant to sneak out. There are some threads about welding repairs here on rennlist. But I wouldn't sweat that yet...

PorKen

Your euro is queer? NTTAWWT. Oh...you meant 'query'.

I'm betting on the ignition timing being retarded. Joe F's '83 euro had a similar issue. I think the timing is set way back to squeak past the NOx test. Doesn't anyone own a timing light?

You have to see if that funky federalization brain is working, too. Fix it, or yank it. (The car has one of those aftermarket feedback systems which uses an O2 sensor and a fuel injector to regulate the control pressure at the WUR.)

The condensation in the oil filler is normal, my '81 does it. Or did it, until I reworked my exhaust system. I'm guessing that the exhaust is a big cobbled together mess.

928ntslow

Ken, you know where I live...bring over the timing light and give me a hand. Call me.

dr bob

Getting that accessory brain working with the CIS is no challenge with a CO meter, and will bring you nice benefit atthe pump with no penalty at all in driveability and power. You can often use a duty-cycle meter, a dwell meter or an oscilloscope to watch the modulating valve as you adjust the airflow meter, and do it without the CO meter in a pinch.

The big driveability problems sometimes come from distributors recurved to limit total advance, and vacuum advance units 'customized' to do the same. All part of the federalization process.

As others suggest, you should beg/borrow/purchase the pressure gauge set to get fuel and control pressures dialed in. Without the gauges it's a crapshoot.

jpitman2

WUR should have 12V on it to warm up the bimetallic strip to start lifting control pressure, but it should be a normal Bosch 2 pin connection. My distributor head has a connector on the side that I believe is the 'half-hot' pressure modifier unit to stop warm flooding - was disconnected when I got it.
jp 83 Euro S AT 51k

928ntslow

Ken came over as I was finishing up a tranny service. Not sure what all he did as I was under the car for most of it, but he did reset the timing and yanked some unnecessary parts that don't seem to matter much....up here. He fiddled with the mixture and idle a bit. I fixed a couple of vacuum lines and although we manged to get it sounding good, it seems we are only at 16 bars on the vacuum.

When revved, the whole throttle body lifts off of its mounts and gets sucked up toward the plenum....not good. I need to get new mounts and replace the rubber collar between the throttle body and plenum. Not only that, the eight runner gaskets need replacing as well as some rock hard vac and breather lines. Engine doesn't run as good now but we are attributing that to vacuum leaks.

As for the overheating issue not real sure what is going on there. We're thinking it's a temp sensor. Infra red temp gauge showed normal (more towards the cooler side) 133 F temps up to 177 F if I recall correctly. Reading was off of a few different parts but mostly the radiator hoses. I do need to replace the V fan as its a bit wobbly. Coolant flow is good, fuel distribution is very good, spark is good.

So based on how well it ran last night then today after the proper adjustments, it seems that the settings were compensated for the short comings.

I will get a box of new bits this week and have back at it so I can legalize it with the Oregon DMV. We'll see how it does with the breathalizer test after it's tuned.

Thanks for the input here. I will apply some of these suggestions though to help the cause.

Charley B

With rough running and vapor out the exhaust, have you done a compression check? It would be good to eliminate a head gasket problem at this point.

Be sure to replace fuel lines if appropriate.

largecar379

here are a few tips that I found with my Euro CIS......

1. none of my fuel lines had the screens "under" them. didn't matter which fuel line you're talking about, no screens on mine......

2. the lines that go from the fuel distributor to the injectors were crimped and malformed badly. the holes were not uniform or the same size for each line or end. you should open these up---every damn one of them---to uniform size. start with a smaller drill bit that doesn't fit and work up in diameter. BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL DOING THIS. use a slow drill speed, being careful to not jam the bit in the line, or drill thru the line wall.

3. injectors are pretty pricey. I've seen $29 up towards $50 per injector, depending where you shop. Mecedes Benz uses a similar injector (047) that will work, but it is brass (reportedly better) and the unit is 1/2 inch shorter that the Porsche unit---I put a set of these in mine.....and the engine has NEVER run this good!!!! new ones are sold for $27 each at a parts house in AZ on the internet. just put in the MB injector number in your search and you'll find a dealer.

4. timing: timing lights are OK, but are you sure the harmonic dampener donut hasn't slipped over the 20 some odd years????? I time mine by ear, pulling the rev's up to about 3 grand, and the rotating the distributor back and forth until the engine is at its highest rpm, then lock down the distributor. do this with the vacuum advance line CONNECTED. you'll have maximum advance when you so this, regardless of dampener slippage or not.

hope this helps---

---Russ