Mike Frye

Hey everyone,

Every once in a while there's someone posting to ask about an eBay car and others randomly chime in about their experience. There is a difference in the way an eBay 'Auction' works, and I thought I'd start a thread where people could post their personal experiences good or bad, specific to 928s.

First of all. I put auction in quotes above because I think in most online auctions and specifically eBay auctions you don't win a car, you win a right to first refusal (as Jim B once said). This is because if the car doesn't significantly match the listing, you aren't compelled to buy it. There is also a special guarantee up to a certain amount through eBay motors ($10k?).

OK, so I'll start:
I got mine sight unseen, from another state. I didn't get a PPI either. The listing was so cheap that if the car ran I figured I got my money's worth. Communication was the key for me though. I feel like I can tell a BS artist when I see one and although this guy clearly didn't know anything about the car, he was responsive and willing to send pics and check things out as I requested. To me this is an honest guy, and the things I heard back made sense and weren't 'sugar coated'.
The listing said the interior was bad. It was. It said the car ran, it did. The pics were good enough to show the exterior including the faults and there were several things listed as broken while others were listed as working. I think a listing that doesn't include any negative points is a dead giveaway for a BS artist.

Basically, my expectations were low and I wasn't disappointed. Now having said that, I bought a 32v car and since it ran, I knew it hadn't had a belt break. I was looking for a project and I got one, but was relatively lucky in that the car was mechanically pretty sound, and the interior was basically the reason for the low price. This is perfect for me.
Within the first few weeks I did all the PM I felt I needed to make it safe and reliable and it's been my DD ever since.

I think I was lucky, but also that 'Luck favors the well prepared'. If you do your homework, can do your own work and don't have unrealistic expectations, you can be confident that you'll find something that will work. And as with anything else, there are no free lunches: You will pay up front or you will pay afterward, either way it's gonna cost you.


Anyone else want to chime in with their experiences?

123quattro

I bought my 80 and 84 both from EBay. The 80 was billed as having sat for a year, had a bad door, a bad fender, and needed a clutch. I talked with the guy and he was nice to deal with. However, his lack of knowledge of the car, or he was more clever than I think he was, bit me. It was exactly as described, except electrically it was a basket case. Having got it home, it looks as if it sat for more like 10 years instead of one. Nothing works on the car. However, the clutch isn't bad. Just the flexible hose that feeds the slave. I could probably part the car for what I paid for it, but it wasn't as close to driving as he led me to believe. I chalked this up to a learning experience.

With the 84S, the guy was also nice to deal with. I would say this car is exactly as represented.

My last 928 EBay experience revolves around getting a door and a fender for the 80. I found a car being parted that was an 80, and white. I emailed back and forth with the guy and ended up buying two doors, two fenders, the hood, and the head light assembly for 1k. All the panels are straight, but the paint is crap on them. I still have mixed feelings on that purchase. It probably wasn't a terrible deal, but they weren't as nice as he led me to believe.

As to buying cars, I've had better luck purchasing them through listing on internet forums. Generally people who are enthusiasts for a mark take better care, and are more aware of the condition. I've also noticed, if you buy a cheap car, people are more likely to try and hide flaws. If you buy something more expensive, they are completely up front. Unfortunately I almost always buy cheap stuff.

leperboy

I looked at three cars from eBay, but didn't buiy mine through eBay. In all the cases, I waited until the auction ended so I could negotiate more directly with the owner, and without the artificual deadline of an auction.

In one case, the seller and I agreed on a price pending a PPI. I gave a deposit, and arranged to pay for the PPI. The owner took it to the shop. The seller was vey honest and straightforward and a member of this board. The PPI was done by a 928 expert mechanic, and an oil leak was found that they suspected was from a headgasket, so the sale didn't happen and my deposit was returned.

In the second case, a car didn't sell on eBay. After the auction I dealt directly with the seller, who was not a member of this board and he was not forthcoming (several requests for him to tell me if the Ac was working were met with "I've never used it" and "I'll check tomorrow"). So, I had another member of this board go and look at the car in person. From that, I got a good sense of the car's problems that the owner was trying hard to keep obscured. With that information (bad tires, needed alignment, brakes, PS leak, dead AC, but recent top end rebuilt and valves after a TB break), I made a bid pursuant a full PPI. The seller turned down my bid and I moved on. A month later he e-mailed me back and said he'd take my offer. But it was too late becausre...

I had already bought one from a fellow lister. He had advertised it as a project car on ebay but didn't sell it and I bought it directly from him on the list. Given his reputation, my knowing it was a project car, and the price being right, I bought it without a PPI. So far, it's been exactly as expected; a lot of stuff to repair and replace. But the price I paid left me expecting that and I could get it up to snuff for what a complete car would have cost.

Plus, I really like having done all this work in my ownership because now I know it's done, I know it has been done to my specs and I know I don't have to worry about whether it was really done, or how well. I feel much more secure having bought a car that needed a lot of things and doing them myself or by people I trust, than in buying one from an unkown person who claims it to be in great shape.

Matt

linderpat

My current car was an ebay find (I was helping my partner look for one, my old one was sold, and the bug bit me again - go figure). It was an 86.5, which was what I was interested in and the price was looking good. Corresponded with the sales guy - it was an ebay dealer sale.

Got lot's of pics - inside, outside, underneath, and foolishly let the salesguy find me a ppi mechanic. The mechanic said the left valve cover was leaky, so I said I'd buy the car if that and some other little things were fixed. Dealer agreed, and the car was pulled as an ebay sale and became a direct buy - bad idea, because you lose all of those ebay protections when you don't let the auction run its course.
Anyhow, the car was delivered to me (it was a FL car and I am in PA). It looked like crap when I first saw it. There were a bunch of things wrong with it (I rolled down the passenger window, and it did not go back up! wipers didn't work, etc etc etc). It was filthy, front spoiler was destroyed, dings and dents, and so on. I was furious, called the dealer, said I'd keep it if he sent me money back. That never went anywhere.

After I cleaned it up fixed some of the electrical stuff, bought some new ***** for the missing ones here and there, it started to look better. Got a new chin spoiler, had my guy look at the engine - other than the FL sun having baked all of the rubber, the engine was otherwise good. Altho he told me that the valve cover leak had never been touched - called the FL ppi mechanic on that too (if I ever get to St Pete, I'm going to look a few folks up!).

After a somewhat hefty sum, plus getting all the body stuff fixed and the paint touched up professionally (again $$$ but well worth it), the car is starting to look pretty good. The dash has a warped cap, the pod is also badly capped, but the seats are fine as well as most everything else. Added some nice touches inside (thanks Nicole!) and after more than a few $$$, I'm starting to have a decent low mileage 86.5! Next weekend the pod comes off and a repalcement goes on (another ebay find - great price), and this winter, the intake job gets done (the intakes are just finished at the powder coater). The car runs well, and expect it to run for a good long time, so its good, but be very careful with ebay...

H2

I've looked at a lot of 928s on eBay over the past few years and I have yet to see a car that is accurately represented. If you don't go look at it, coupled with a PPI, you stand to pay more than you'd like, particularly after a couple of years of "catch up repairs". The cost of a PPI and plane ticket is often less than the cost of a new radiator, not to mention the many other expensive items that may need replacing.

Harvey

88porsche928

i bought my car off of Ebay. The body looks real good however the first thing that went wrong a week later was the ISV. Then a belt tension light came on. Also a brake light came on. The intake hoses where cracked to hell. Vacuum lines where missing. Power steering belt missing. Ac not working. I recommend not rushing to get a 928 and just fully inspecting a 928 before buying it.

Hilton

I bought my car after seeing it for sale on the New Zealand equivalent of ebay. I live in Australia, so seeing the car myself was never an option, although I had done a lot of research and test-driven a bunch of cars in Sydney, so I had some expectations on quality of interior, engine, problems etc.

I sent a few questions to the seller during the auction, so he knew I was serious and interested, then waited out the auction period. After the auction ended I e-mailed him and got a bunch of detailed photos.

Then I hunted down some NZ Rennlisters using the search function here, and got a recommendation for a Porsche independent who knew 928's, and arranged a PPI at my cost (at this stage the seller knew I was serious - I was paying for a PPI including a replacement oil filter). The independent in my case used to work in London on the team looking after the racing 928CS's, was porsche trained, and now ran his own porsche-specialist garage.. had a good chat with him and came away confident that he knew about typical 928 issues.

Getting the PPI is the only "insurance" I had.. but they were good, knew their stuff (including warning me the PPI would include a few hours labour to check the crank end-play, until I mentioned it was a 5-speed, at which point they relaxed). They took photos of all the problem areas they found during the PPI and e-mailed them to me (this is the bonus of finding your own PPI mechanic - you can trust them more). I can't stress enough how important getting a good PPI from someone who knows 928's is!

After seeing the problems, asking some Q's here on Rennlist (including photos from the PPI) and reassuring myself that the work wasn't beyond my limited mechanical experience, I paid a deposit, arranged shipping from NZ to Australia, and then paid for the car the day it got picked up by the shipping company. WHen it arrived, I was pleasantly surprised - the condition was better than the photos belied (especially the seats - way better than 150k miles led me to expect), and all the broken stuff was exactly as expected from the PPI.

Things I'd say are important in buying online:

1. See the car yourself if possible (not in my case)
2. Arrange a PPI yourself, using a mechanic who understands 928s. Make sure they test-drive the car as part of the PPI.
3. Don't pay any money to the seller until you're ready to commit to the purchase - if you're paying for a PPI, that should be a strong enough signal that you're serious.
4. If the car has a maintenance history, make sure you see copies of it (receipts, dealer stamps, invoices, work orders, whatever they have that backs up what the seller tells you).
5. Ask a lot of questions, not just of the seller, but also Rennlist and local 928ers

All in all, I'm very happy with my outcome - I paid a lot less than the same car would have cost me locally (very few manual 928's in Australia), and wasn't disappointed by any part of my car's condition or history.

And they all lived happily ever after.

The End.

ShawnSmith

I bought my 88 S4 through eBay. It was largely as-promised, though I did have to fix some minor stuff that had been overlooked (passenger seat motor seized, power steering leak, AC needed freon, etc).

Usually it's not too hard to read the ads, see the pictures, and get a pretty good idea what kind of owner you are dealing with. Lots of crap for sale, and a few genuine items. Watch for sellers who openly and clearly document known issues with the vehicle - the honest ones tend to want to show exactly what is for sale in the interest of full disclosure and a fair deal.

Bill Ball

My 89 was bought on eBay in October of 99. eBay works best if you really get to know the seller and the car via email and possibly phone calls before the auction closes, which was the case for my car. I knew almost everything about the car before I bid. Even though the seller stipulated a deposit after the auction closed, he waived that as I agreed to fly-in the following weekend. I do not like the idea of sending in any money before I actually see the car firsthand, although I had one guy pay me $11K for a car I sold on eBay without him having seen it. Anyway, I flew to Bend, OR, and the 928 seller picked me up at the airport. I inspected the car, found it perfect, gave the seller a cashiers check for the bid amount and drove home and lived happily ever after.

The advantage of eBay is the volume of cars for sale. The disadvantage is the distance and difficulty in really knowing what and who you are dealing with. If you are careful, as I was, it will work out fine. I got a great deal on a one-owner car in near showroom condition. The seller got more money than the local Porsche dealer or his local market would offer. It was a Win-Win.

Intrinsicate

I purchased my present car on eBay, four years ago, from a dealer in St Louis, MO. Before bidding, I ran a Carfax, which was clean, and called for some supplemental pictures, which were immediately forthcoming. I was the high bidder, but I was apparently still below the reserve. When the auction was over, I called the dealer and asked him to accept my high bid, which he readily agreed to do. I had the car transported under cover, and it turned out to be cosmetically exactly as described - all original paint, no damage. Mechanically, it was even better than I had dared to hope. The rack leaked, which was to be expected; otherwise, no issues. The only work I have done is the normal maintenance and upgrades; nothing unreasonable for a nineteen year old car. For the initial and subsequent outlay, it is hard to imagine what car could have given as much unique satisfaction.

Podguy

Ebay is a good place to get a 928, but recently prices have esclated and bidding has increased. I bought several cars off eBay (including the convertible) and every one was a fine deal. Expect to be disappointed a bit, but allow for this in the price. It is rare to impossible to find a perfect 928. There will always be something that does not work or needs fixing.

The two last cars were the best deals and ones ignored by the rest of the world. One was a running 83 with a perfect all leather interior and smashed drivers door. Drove the car home. The interior was worth more than the price of the car. Raplaced the door and banged out the fenders and the body is ready for paint. Had the frame checked and it was perfect.

The last was an 86.5 with the paint stripped off and a low mileage S4 motor with headers. Other than missing the front and rear bumper covers the rest of the car was complete. No one bid the car up and I got it for much less than the value of the motor. The guy had a negative one rating, but turned out to be an honest and nice guy.

I think many sellers are turned off by "know it all" buyers. This list tends to depreciate a car because it is not perfect. When I approach a seller it is with information about the 928 and talk the car up and not down. This shows - one, I am a serious buyer and two, willing to pay a fair price. My price may be low but after gaining the buyer's respect he knows it is fair. Too many times when I buy a 928 the seller almost cries when the car leaves. People love thier 928s. There are too many people who cannot afford to fix the cars and when something breaks they are stuck. The idea the car will be restored is comforting. Of course sometimes it take me years to get there - but still why beat up on a guy just because they are in a difficult place.

Like everything else you have to have an eye and know what you are going after. The first car you buy you will always pay too much.

Matt - fixed the front seal and no more oil leak. Been driving the car for over a year with no engine problems. So much for PPI's from top shops. I am glad you got the car you wanted.

Dan the Pod Guy

WICruiser

I purchased my car on E-Bay as well but I was not well informed about 928's at the time. The car was basically as listed but it was clearly a project car, low dollar value, entry into the 928 world.

It helped that the seller owned another 928 and had purchsed this as a project but then lost interest. I think he was also scared about potential TBF because it had stopped while idling and would not restart. The no start condition was disclosed but the potential for TBF was not.

There will always be things that you learn after you buy a car, local or E-Bay, regardless but now that I know a lot more about 928's I think I was just plain lucky. The purchase price was low because the car wouldn't run, but that turned out to be a typical relay problem, the thrust bearing end play check was good, the TB/WP was my first task and the engine appears basically sound. I have put a fair amount into the "project" already but by doing my own work and not needing this car to be functional on a regular basis I got what I was looking for. I suspect finding a car like this without E-Bay would be a real challenge because nobody puts a lot of effort into selling cars like this.

So my advice, is pay attention to what the seller says and read between the lines. If communication is good and you think the offering is what you are looking for, then get a PPI done or be prepared to live with the consenquences, and move on.

weirdscience

My 84 was on e-bay and fairly close to where I live so I actually got a chance to see and hear it. The car was just about as good as the owner claimed it was in the ad. I bought it and drove it for a year and did nothing to it at all other than an oil change. Now Im starting to work on it. Looking back I should have bought a better one but I had the "bug" and it had to be an 84. Oh well I still love the car...

F4GIB

I bought mine from an Ebay ad. I was the high bidder but didn't meet the reserve. Negotiated with the seller and got it at a fair price.

The Ebay ad had 2 or 3 pages of very detailed description plus a dozen or more photos. I had the seller send me more. He was committed to the verbal/photo description as I would not allow "as is" into the deal. Then I got a nearby friend to eyeball it and drive it. The actual car matched the description.

I flew out and looked it over myself before I closed the deal. Since it had a 10-year old T-belt, I got the seller to guaranty (in writing) that the car would make it back to my dealer. The drive home was most pleasant. At my dealer, they said it was in superb condition so I had them change the T-belt, check TT tension and do a dozen desirable maintainence items. I'd budgeted $5K for this and used it all. I took it to a very good body shop for a buff and shine. Magic.

It looks great and runs like a top. I won in my class at the Nordstern PCA concours last summer. I'm satisfied with my purchase.

Mogans

I sold my first 928 on ebay. It was an '81, I loved that car - but I decided I wanted the GT. I got $4300 for the '81. I actually thought about keeping them both, but I didn't have the space and maintaining both of them just ended up not making sense for me. I think the guy who bought my '81 got a great deal.